Screw the IRS.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, my middle class life has a lot of practice making excuses. Excuse me for seeing my fellow man and having a heart . What's your solution? Let them starve? Screw teaching them any valuable skills, let them be gardeners for your dad who gets to keep more of his money, right?

Oh yeah, lower end kids can really get a lot of grants for school. Only if they can get into the school that gives the grants in the first place. What are the percentages in school systems which recieve diddly squat because property taxes are minimum because everyone makes $20,000?

But that's ok... your dad needs to keep 30% more of his money. Screw the poor, right?

[Kaak]

most universities give grants for poorer families...

[Kaak]

and besides, if my dad got to keep more of his money, he could pay the gardener more

[Footie Mad]

Anyone who employs a gardener or other household staff should not complain about not keeping enough of their money.

[Kaak]

that was a joke, we have no gardener....geeez

[David Floyd]

Kaak, some people don't understand the concept of fairness. They think that "fair" means everyone paying what the government thinks they can afford, rather than paying an equal percentage. Obviously, they misunderstand the meaning of fairness, but we aren't likely to convince them otherwise.

[Dauphin]

If a flat tax was introduced many of those with the "Why should I pay a higher rate?" reasoning will start on the "Why should I pay more?" reasoning and demand a flat poll tax. Final objective of course, "Why should I pay anything?".

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I don't know why I'm wading into this; I guess it's Sunday night and I'm bored. so here'a a question; I don't have any particular opinion, I'm just curious.

Let's assume the government shouldn't tax you for providing life's necessities -- food, clothing, shelter. Let's further assume that the allowance for these things should be somewhere above poverty level, because the government has a vested interest in helping people enter the middle class.

Okay, so how much money do you need to feed, clothe, and shelter yourself according to middle-class standards. $25,000? And if you had a kid, how much more would you need? $10,000?

Okay, so here's the proposal: Flat tax, say 15%, but with a standard deduction of $25,000 for each adult in the family and $10,000 for each kid in the family. A family of four wouldn't pay a dime of tax until they had an income > $70,000. A family of four making $500,000/year would pay $64,500.

Would that work?

[Dauphin]

Tax is pretty much structured (rates are different though) like that already, in effective terms that is.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Yeah, I know, but everybody has to play the deduction game every year to get it there. I'm just wondering if you could make it that simple and still have a sound tax system that was nevertheless just.

[GePap]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Kaak, some people don't understand the concept of fairness. They think that "fair" means everyone paying what the government thinks they can afford, rather than paying an equal percentage. Obviously, they misunderstand the meaning of fairness, but we aren't likely to convince them otherwise.

Only problem, life is not fair, and no one gives a **** about it.

Don't talk about fiarness liberterian, cause real fairness would be everyone paying the same percentage on the same earnings. And we all know you don;t want that- so you have already forsaken fairness.

[pchang]

Originally posted by GePap


Only problem, life is not fair, and no one gives a **** about it.

Don't talk about fiarness liberterian, cause real fairness would be everyone paying the same percentage on the same earnings. And we all know you don;t want that- so you have already forsaken fairness.

Only if everyone produces the same value in output

[GePap]

Only if output is fairly valued

Having the job I do, I have seen what wanting fairness out of a world that most certainly is not (its not unfair either-its random, makinbg the question moot), and its not pretty.

That if anything is the great arguement vs. "natural rights"- the world has no moral principles, only physical laws. Something like a "right" can never be "natural".

That being said, to progrssive taxation

[PLATO]

The key to a "fair" flat tax is an initial exemption amount. The first $40K or $50K in income should be TAX FREE and any amount above that should be taxed at a rate that would fully fund the budget. In other words, every October when they set the next years budget, they wuld also be setting the next years tax rate. The exemption amount should also be subject to COLA every year to keep the real Tax free wages consistent.

Fair: Yes
Protects the poor: Yes
Balances the Budget: Yes

Tell me where I am wrong folks!

[pchang]

In that case, Social Security must be eliminated. In its present form it is the most regressive tax there is.