The Uselessness of Private Charity

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And exactly how many of those are for web designers? Three? I've already applied to them. For ost of the rest, I'm either over or under qualified.

If you are as close to homelessness as you hint at then you just need a job, any job. It doesn't matter if it's a night watchman, at a liquor store, a waiter, or at a gas station.

When I graduated from college I couldn't find a job as a geologist right away so I ended up spending three months doing manual labor at construction sites. Yeah, it sucked but it kept my bills paid until something better came along.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Japher

My wife is out of work now too.

With a morgage like yours to pay too. That sucks man.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Asher
That last line about the "left" was obviously just a parody of Agathon's ridiculous comment (or I thought it was obvious, anyway).

And I've no idea why you brought up Republicans. Do you think I'm Republican?

I merely think that handing money out to people consistently unemployed is not a solution. And it is not a solution.

I made a mistake, I didn't realize the last part was a
parady.

My apologies. I tried to fix it some with an edit, but my personal editing policy is not to adjust the overall thing I wrote.

Oopsies.

Forgive?

-Drachasor

[Agathon]

That's what employment insurance is for, Aggie dear.

If you are consistently unable to find steady work and end up in welfare, at that point something is seriously wrong...and the welfare system does nothing to solve the problem.

Why don't you think before you post? You consistently post idiotic comments like this which make you look like a pampered ignoramus.

Of course if you end up on welfare something is wrong - the main cause is that there are not enough jobs. Merely wishing that people currently on welfare would try harder to find work misses the point: most unemployment is structural unemployment. That can't be solved by stopping welfare checks or by moral lectures to the unemployed.

Welfare checks solve that problem, by providing an income so that people don't starve.

And employment insurance just is welfare under a different name. All welfare is a kind of social insurance.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Asher

Welfare encourages people like che to stick with an obvious dead-end career choice instead of re-training into something the market actually demands.

Make student loans easily accessible and subsidize education -- especially for students with family or dependents -- and let them become a valuable person in the market.

Welfare cheques solve nothing.

As usual the political left are completely out to lunch on how to solve an obvious social problem -- Welfare is not a solution.

Amen brother man!

Clinton and the centrist knew this, Repbulicans know this, but for some reason the left wing of my party can't figure this out.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Amen brother man!

Clinton and the centrist knew this, Repbulicans know this, but for some reason the left wing of my party can't figure this out.

Heeeey, I am of the left wing!

I am just do my best to be very pragmatic.

-Drachasor

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If you are as close to homelessness as you hint at then you just need a job, any job.

Not so close I'll take any job. If I'm still out of work in Janurary, then I'll take any work. It's the choice between paying the power bill or having food for a couple weeks.

If homelessness were iminient, I'd be on the phone to my dad telling him, "I'm moving to Indianapolis, so get ready." I really do not look forward to being a Burger King manager, though he'd be happy with both his sons in the business, though Theben would probably use it as his excuse to flee to California.

Bunnygrrl's in South Florida right now looking for a job down there, so we can scrounge together enough money to move where there are more web design jobs.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Why don't you think before you post? You consistently post idiotic comments like this which make you look like a pampered ignoramus.

Of course if you end up on welfare something is wrong - the main cause is that there are not enough jobs.

The problem with this is there's lots of jobs, especially in computers.

There's just not many jobs for "web designers", a trade which went out of style in...oh...'99.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Asher

The problem with this is there's lots of jobs, especially in computers.

There's just not many jobs for "web designers", a trade which went out of style in...oh...'99.

I was just looking at jobs in my area today.

There is a web designer job open in my city!

Just move to Las Vegas, and you'll be hooked up.

[Japher]

With a morgage like yours to pay too. That sucks man.

naw... we'll be fine.

I think she is happy as we haven't had any time off in over 18 months. She is hoping she doesn't find another job until after christmas, so she can work on the house.

We have been smart with our money, and I advocate the "pay yourself first" to her, since she doesn't know anything about investing. I keep her with a good savings and debt free. She did really good this year; her car is paid off until February, all insurance is paid until June, and she has 3+ months of her income saved up.

I think it's healthy to keep separate accounts. Her brother and his wife are always fighting about money and they have joint accounts, and they never talk about it.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Asher
There's just not many jobs for "web designers", a trade which went out of style in...oh...'99.

It's still a well paying job when you can get it. If I get rehired at J&J, which is a possibility, I could be making $35 $40 an hour. Since it's a two month gig, I'll basically pay off my credit cards, some of my old debt, and stash the rest that I don't spend on rent/bills, and food. Then we move to Ft. Lauderdale.

[Agathon]

The problem with this is there's lots of jobs, especially in computers.

There's just not many jobs for "web designers", a trade which went out of style in...oh...'99.

Uh...OK. Are you prepared to take the massive tax hit that would result from instituting such programs? Student loans by themselves will not work. Moreover, are you prepared to take the massive pay cut you will get once the supply of people for your job swells as a result of such a program?

I thought not.

But it is irrelevant. It makes no difference what sort of jobs are available. The problem is structural unemployment. Governments have instituted many such job training schemes over the years and many people have taken advantage of them. The NZ government gives welfare beneficiaries a break on university costs and many people have taken up the opportunity. I know, I met many such people.

But unemployment hasn't miraculously disappeared and the unemployment rate hasn't really changed all that much. So you can go on making such suggestions, but it has been done before and it certainly doesn't solve the problem, which is a structural problem. As long as we all agree to have the kinds of economies we currently enjoy, we will have to suffer unemployment. The remedy for this problem is welfare payments. But they aren't just a remedy, they prevent lots of worse things from happening like an increase in the crime rate and other appalling social problems.

Most governments realize this, even if voters don't. That's why they are content to tinker with welfare rather than abolish it (even the radical right wing governments that NZ enjoyed during the 80s and 90s).

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Uh...OK. Are you prepared to take the massive tax hit that would result from instituting such programs? Student loans by themselves will not work. Moreover, are you prepared to take the massive pay cut you will get once the supply of people for your job swells as a result of such a program?

I thought not.

I would be willing to pay more taxes to further subsidize education. Further, I do not genuinely believe I'd have to take a pay cut for my job. If Canada has a provenly highly educated workforce, more companies will likely get started. The number of computer jobs is not finite, it grows with demand.

[Agathon]

I would be willing to pay more taxes to further subsidize education. Further, I do not genuinely believe I'd have to take a pay cut for my job. If Canada has a provenly highly educated workforce, more companies will likely get started. The number of computer jobs is not finite, it grows with demand.

But what you want to do is interfere in the market to provide an increase in computer experts. If the market worked properly, you wouldn't need to do this. Presumably many people want a high paying job so are already studying computers.

Giving people a cheaper option to do it (which is what you have to do to make your scheme work) will mean a government created increase in supply, therefore the price will go down. Some people might start new firms, but with the government effectively subsidizing the computer industry the price will go down.

[Sandman]

A good public transport network is essential to getting the unemployed back to work. A pity that the only good public transport system is a nationalised public transport system that hasn't been devastated by governmental neglect and/or malice.