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  • #61
    I'm also going to extend your logic, and note because almost everyone wants a PC (to the tune of 98%), that means that the computer with 2% (that'd be Apple, incase you're dense) "sucks".
    I didn't see this at first.

    You are the one who is always claiming the marketshare thing. You can't have it both ways.

    Thank you and good night.
    Only feebs vote.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Tingkai
      It's not well designed. It's available in stores here in Hong Kong. People aren't buying it.
      Why isn't it well designed?

      Pop quiz: Which of the following routes provides the shortest distance (minimum amount of work) between two points:
      A) A straight line (Zen Touch)
      B) A circle

      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Tingkai
        And look how this online retailer is selling the Zen Touch:

        There is currently a shortage of iPods and iPod minis in the UK. We can therefore highly recommend the new Creative Zen Touch 20GB - digital music player with an amazing 24 hours battery life that holds 10,000 songs or other digital files such as photos, presentations or business data (that's 10 times as many as the iPod mini), but all for the same price!
        http://www.ukoffer.com/ipod-mini.php
        Tingkai, does it look like I live in the UK? Do you think I care about the UK?



        The UK situation is always different. Their launch dates are different, their pricing is different, and their market is different.

        Another consideration regarding the salesblurbs (which are ALWAYS trustworthy...right?)...did you ever think they were trying to establish how leet it is to own a player, rather than providing facts?

        It reminds me of going to a car dealership and having them tell you that "we can't keep up with all the people wanting this car! But you can drive it away today..."

        Anyway, there must be an incredible iPod Shortage if Future Shop ships them out within 24 hours, eh?
        Get our Low Price Guarantee, online or in store, on a huge selection of electronics, appliances, furniture, fitness, travel, baby products and more!


        Strangely, Future Shop doesn't even carry the Zen Touch. And as the mobile audio manager for the Richmond Hill store told me the other day, they haven't been able to secure any nationwide.

        Best Buy in the US has the exact same story: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....3&type=product

        They, also, don't have any Zen Touches at all. Yet they do have other Creative players...

        So folks, what have we learned? If you're going to harp about there being a dramatic iPod shortage, usually this would require for there to be not enough supply of iPods. A good indicator for this is having 4-6 week waiting periods, not "shipping in under 24 hours".

        And no, Tingkai, it really doesn't matter if the Brits have an iPod Mini shortage. We are not British, we have totally different markets.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Agathon
          I didn't see this at first.

          You are the one who is always claiming the marketshare thing. You can't have it both ways.

          Thank you and good night.
          My rants to do with Apple have nothing to do with marketshare, and everything to do with them being overpriced crap with no software. One factor in their marketshare, though, is they are overpriced crap with no software.

          It doesn't matter anyway, you've just skirted around the issue. You've just used the iPod marketshare to say the other products "suck", yet you refuse to use the same reasoning in the PC market, which is even far more slanted (and a far more lucrative market if I may add ).

          So you have a two options:
          1) Retract your stupid argument, and put forth a real one if you can come up with one
          2) Argue that the reason Apple's marketshare is so low is because they "suck", to provide consistency in your arguments
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment


          • #65
            Asher, have you gotten the Zen Touch or are use still using your older Creative mp3? If it is the latter, what do you think about the Zen Touch compared to the older one. I heard they took out some features.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
              Asher, have you gotten the Zen Touch or are use still using your older Creative mp3? If it is the latter, what do you think about the Zen Touch compared to the older one. I heard they took out some features.
              One of the euros here has the Zen Touch, and he confirmed that those features are in again.

              I still use the original Zen. I'm waiting for the Zen Micro to get 20GB.

              From what I've read, the Zen Touch now has a superset of the features in the original Zen (which were a superset -- from the music perspective -- of the iPod).

              It really amazed me when Apple made a big deal of adding the "Shuffle" option to the menu prominently with the iPod 4G, seeing as this was a staple of the original Nomads back in the late 90s, and ever since. Even then, the Zen's is still better. The iPod's "shuttle" randomly plays a song off your iPod. Which is nice...the Zen can do that too, or it can randomly play a song in a playlist as well.

              Even basic stuff like playlist editing on the device (rather than the computer, so you could do it on-the-go) wasn't added til the 2nd or 3rd gen iPod, while it's been around forever on the Nomads...
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • #67
                I didn't like the look of the Zen Micro... seemed ugly to me. So does the Special Edition 'U2' iPod. Ugh.

                Also they seem to be selling it for the same as the the iPod Mini, which I think may be a mistake in terms of gaining marketshare.
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Asher

                  Why isn't it well designed?

                  Pop quiz: Which of the following routes provides the shortest distance (minimum amount of work) between two points:
                  A) A straight line (Zen Touch)
                  B) A circle

                  I tried them both and the circle approach is definitely a better design. The problem with the Zen Touch design is you have to move you finger to exactly the right spot to get the desired direction and speed.

                  With the iPod, the direction can be set from any point on the pad and the scroll speed is set by the speed you move your finger. If you had an iPod, you would understand.

                  The exterior design of the iPod, particularly the iPod mini is far superior than the clunky Zen Touch.

                  People are not buying the iPod because of clever marketing. They're buying it because it looks great and because it is easy to use.
                  Golfing since 67

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Yeah, it surprised me that the Zen Micro costs more than the iPod Mini. Then again, Creative also has 4GB players cheaper than the Mini (the MuVo line...$190 vs $250)

                    The Zen Micro also comes with an FM Radio tuner (and ability to record with it), 5GB instead of 4GB, longer battery life, replacable batteries, voice recorder, etc. That's well worth the $30 premium IMO...
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Asher

                      Tingkai, does it look like I live in the UK? Do you think I care about the UK?



                      The UK situation is always different. Their launch dates are different, their pricing is different, and their market is different.
                      It's proof that there is a shortage while there is strong demand.

                      Provide me some proof that people desperately want the Zen Touch, but can't buy it.

                      There's simply not that much demand for the Zen Touch. Why? Because it lacks the looks and usability of the iPod.
                      Golfing since 67

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        The Zen Micro also comes with an FM Radio tuner (and ability to record with it), 5GB instead of 4GB, longer battery life, replacable batteries, voice recorder, etc. That's well worth the $30 premium IMO...


                        I DanS'ed you . On other sites, I saw they were asking preorders for the same price as the Mini ($250). But even though it has more features, most people probably won't look at the Micro with the Mini out there. A lower price would be the first step in making a dent, IMO.
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Tingkai
                          I tried them both and the circle approach is definitely a better design. The problem with the Zen Touch design is you have to move you finger to exactly the right spot to get the desired direction and speed.

                          With the iPod, the direction can be set from any point on the pad and the scroll speed is set by the speed you move your finger. If you had an iPod, you would understand.
                          I've used an iPod the other day to test it out.

                          If you don't like that, change the setting to be more like the iPods -- where you can "sweep" your finger down the pad to scroll. It has both options. See, it's strange having a choice isn't it...

                          The original Zens, you scrolled the wheel continuously to scroll down. In the Zen Xtras, you push the wheel in one direction or the other and it would scroll, varying the speed with the relative offset of the wheel. The Zen Touch defaults to a style similar to the Xtra, but you can change it to be more like the iPod and original Zen if you so choose.

                          Usability studies disagreed with your assertion that it's better to "sweep" like the iPods and original Zens do. It requires much more effort to do, and cannot vary the speed appropriately (it's limited to the speed of your finger movement -- which over a circle the size of the iPods isn't too fast).

                          I will concede that you have to be somewhat brighter and you have to use it for about 5 minutes before you get used to the default Touch method, but in the end it's far more efficient. In retrospect, it doesn't surprise me in the least that Apple assumes the user's a moron and has trouble with relative controls...

                          People are not buying the iPod because of clever marketing. They're buying it because it looks great and because it is easy to use.
                          They're buying them because they're hip, they're buying them because they're available, and they do the job.

                          I'm definintely not a fan of the sterile white, in any case.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Tingkai
                            It's proof that there is a shortage while there is strong demand.

                            Provide me some proof that people desperately want the Zen Touch, but can't buy it.
                            Imran! He was looking all over to test one in a store, and STILL can't find one.

                            There's simply not that much demand for the Zen Touch. Why? Because it lacks the looks and usability of the iPod.
                            The simple problem with this argument (other than the stupidity on its face), is that it's bull****. These stores that don't have the Touch still stock the totally crappy RCA and Sony units, and the Rio ones...plus the old Zens as well.

                            It makes NO sense for them not to offer the updated Zen at well if they could. You gotta know that, and you have to be pulling my chain...

                            Honestly, how much more proof do I need that the people who buy iPods are of sub-par intelligence than the iPod users on Apolyton. Stunning stupidity in this thread...
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Asher
                              Imran! He was looking all over to test one in a store, and STILL can't find one.
                              Well to be fair to the question, I wasn't looking to buy one, per se, as to test it out to see whether I wanted to buy one .
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Imran started a nerd thread!
                                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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