Food

[Al B. Sure!]

chegitz:

Kojeve's model only works because it conveniently ignores the immiseration of the 3rd world proletariat.

and yet the 3rd world's move from subsistance agriculture to commerical agriculture and sweatshop industry has no doubt increased that standard of living in the 3rd world... from a humanitarian standpoint, socialism has a case to claim that those improvements are not enough. from an economic standpoint, however, too many concessions to the 3rd world plebians (**** the term proletariate. for centuries they were called plebians!) can and will slow their economic growth and cause them to reach affluence later.

in addition, japan and south korea are superb examples of the improvements that capitalism can provide given time.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Kojeve's model only works because it conveniently ignores the immiseration of the 3rd world proletariat. Also, in the post-Soviet world, the capitalists have no incentive to treat their workers humanely or fairly, and we have seen all the gains of the previous period come under attack and begin to falter. In addition, with globalization in full force, wages in the 1st world are racing to meet 3rd world wages.

Kojeve take a specific historical situation and universalizes it. This is very un-Hegelian, which seeks to understand things in context and motion, not by looking at snapshots in time.

Kojeve himself worked for the French govt, and played a role in developed the EEC and GATT. He was heavily engaged in PRAXIS.

I dont beleive Kojeve accepted Marxist-Leninist economics, but followed neo-classical economics that showed globalization leading to rising wages as barriers to trade are overcome. Id rather not take this into a discussion of wage statistics, but that seems to be where its heading. Koheve I think would have seen even 1948 US wage levels as "the end of history" - youve got what you need, including the eggs, bread and bananas. Certainly nothing has happened between 1992 and 2004 to reduce US or European wages to US 1948 levels. That leaves issues of induced wants, and the importance of relative wage levels within a society. Despite the emphasis on US capitalism in the write up, my impression is that Kojeve preferred Europes slightly more left welfare state approach (of course in the period he was writing US and Euro didnt look so different) IIUC the instigation to keep these post-historic issues within bounds would be the continued functioning of class politics at the margins. Not revolution mind you, but tweaking.

[MrFun]

Re: Food

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I really like good food.

Kinda of a pointless statement. I mean who here would like bad food?

[Al B. Sure!]

Chegitz:

i know you play Victoria... now you load up the game as Spain in 1836. Spain has lost most of its colonies and is basically just Iberian Spain. the overwhelming majority of your population are farmers with some labourers collecting raw resources. As a result, your tax income is low, your people are getting only a percentage of their basic needs, you can't afford to subsidize either consumers or producers, you can't really do much in terms of education, etc. you're in a catch 22 situation basically.

now the only option is to go into debt (read foreign capital investment). Start building some factories with these loans and start educating craftsmen and clerks. as long as you are very restrictive on social reforms (read laissez-faire gov't), you will see your trade deficit disappear and your people will have more goods availible produced in your own country.

now try the game again but have the first thing you do be to give a high minimum wage, high pensions, etc. you won't get nowhere.

now you'll say that's because communism can't compete in a capitalist global economy yadda yadda... having one strong capitalist producer will force capitalism upon the rest of the world... so what does it take? complete global communism? can communism function by itself and of itself?

[Snowflake]

When I was about 12 I had a piece of bread with jam and a glass of milk for the first time. I was like, soooo happy. It was the most delicious food that I've ever had.

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Food

Originally posted by MrFun
Kinda of a pointless statement. I mean who here would like bad food?

My grandparents liked bad food. They prefered it.

[Snowflake]

Re: Re: Food

Originally posted by MrFun



Kinda of a pointless statement. I mean who here would like bad food?

Well, a lot of people like crap foods like chips and stuff.

[Al B. Sure!]

until three years ago i thought Vienna sausages were a delicacy... such a fancy name and they're so little and i had them once when i was younger. then i see them selling 3 cans for 79 cents at a phar-mor

[monkspider]

Victoria
Good Food
Che
AS

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Re: Food

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


My grandparents liked bad food. They prefered it.

oh, ok

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
until three years ago i thought Vienna sausages were a delicacy...

Me too! (though I figured it out a little sooner).

[Al B. Sure!]

just curious... do yall got phar-mor's in other parts of the country?

[pchang]

Have you really had the chance to have REALLY good food?

You must go to the organic farmer's market in the Ferry building in San Francisco during the summer months. Buy berries from Mr. Lucero. Buy Peaches and Pears from K&J Orchards. Buy asian vegetables from Mr. Moua. Get fish from Kris at Fresh Fish. Get meat from the Golden Gate Meat company.

Have your had olive oil from Tuscany? White truffles from Piedmont? Black truffles from Perigord? Proscuitto from San Danielle? Caviar from Iran?

[Dauphin]

English food

And I'm not talking the stereotypical stuff. I'm talking things like the Full English Breakfast or the Sunday Roast Carvery.

[Space05us]

Speaking of food, I just finished a can of fruit cocktail and it was mostly peaches. I think there were about 5 grapes and 2 cherries. What kind of world it this turning into when fruit cocktail is no longer filled with many fruits but rather it is peaches spiced with other fruits!