Summary of studies: Religiousity and intelligence

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Stuff that cannot be explained by science doesn't exist.

there is a lot of stuff that can't be explained by science

there is even a lot of stuff that can never (as far as we know right now) be explained by science

JM

[Sava]

agnosticism/soft-atheism is the only prudent belief...

[Traianvs]

Of course, Europe is much better about accepting atheism.

True. The reason for this is that in the industrial age, when scientific advance should have made everything easier for mankind, it did not thanks to the greed of the industrials and the rich in general. In those times the catholic church here (I'm talking especially about Belgium now) accepted large donations from the rich in return for support. That is keeping the masses stupid and making them accept their misery in that in the afterlife it would not matter anyway; they would be free from sorrow.
The church hardly did anything to improve the status of the working class, and that drove the 2 groups apart.

An answer to this was the socialist movement. In fact this socialist movement had the same goals as the catholic church. Improving the lives of the common people, but as the catholic church was totally corrupted another way out was sought out by the people itself. So therefore it's not surprising that many people were disgusted with the church. Not that they all became atheists all of a sudden but that was the first step of the fall of the decadent and evil church

o well, most of the know-it-all apolytoners know this already I guess

[Flip McWho]

Agnosticism means you admit one can't know for certain one way or another, but always implies a lack of theism. In other words, they don't believe in god, but they admit they might be wrong. Agnostics are atheists.

Sorry thats crap. I'm agnostic and I don't count myself as an atheist. Being agnostic means that there is no evidence either way. There could be a God, there could not be. The doesn't automatically make me a atheist. Sure some slide towards atheism and some slide more towards theism.

Anyways to whoever said Agnostics are the only intelligent way to go

And this research doesn't surprise me any, though I do believe intelligent people can believe in God and religion.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


there is a lot of stuff that can't be explained by science

there is even a lot of stuff that can never (as far as we know right now) be explained by science

JM

bs. It's not because we are too stupid to understand that it can't be explained by science. Some things might be so complex that the human brain will never understand it, but that doesn't mean it can't be explained by science.

[Jon Miller]

so now you are starting to treat science as the supernatural

please don't, it makes it harder for us who do science with others mistake the two

JM

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
this comes down to your wacky definition of universe then

I am not gonig to play your deffinition games

Jon Miller

It has nothing to do with definition games or a wacky definition. It has to do with the fact that while they may not be the ones describing the motions of particles, there are rules governing the behavior of your supposed creator.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
there is a lot of stuff that can't be explained by science

there is even a lot of stuff that can never (as far as we know right now) be explained by science


JM

BS.

"What is the purpose of life?"

Science: there is no purpose.

"What created the universe?"

Science: nothing. It just is.

And even if there ARE questions unanswerable by science, blind assertion and faith certainly can't provide anything true.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Stuff that cannot be explained by science doesn't exist.

That's a pretty bold claim. Do you truly believe there to be nothing that is fundamentally unknowable?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
your whole deffinition of detection relies upon science

BS. By undetectable I mean there is no possible action that could lead to me experiencing anything that could even possibly imply the existance of such beings.

if it appears unknowable, than than it is supernatural (to you)

now as to if there is stuff, that is supernatural to everyone, I think that that is pretty obvious

Jon Miller

Supernatural is one of the most idiotic words invented. Everything is part of nature.

I maintain that the idiot is the one who comes up with a creator in the first place, because logically that person is required to enumerate every OTHER thing that we can't know whether or not it exists. Get started.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dauphin
That's a pretty bold claim. Do you truly believe there to be nothing that is fundamentally unknowable?

Depends on to whom. Everything could, theoretically be explained by science. That doesn't mean that the ability to do so hasn't been lost, like Ozymandius' kingdom. Nor does it mean that the explanation can be understood by human beings (at least at present). In theoretical mathematics we have already reached far beyond the ability of most people to understand it, and is only possible via the use of computers.

[Jon Miller]

high level theory hardly uses computers at all

a lot of peopel say that they have had supernatural experiences (I am not saying that I agree with them)

yet you would say that they haven't, why?

because your deffinitino of detection is scientific, it requires that it be repeatable

Jon Miller

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Depends on to whom. Everything could, theoretically be explained by science. That doesn't mean that the ability to do so hasn't been lost, like Ozymandius' kingdom. Nor does it mean that the explanation can be understood by human beings (at least at present). In theoretical mathematics we have already reached far beyond the ability of most people to understand it, and is only possible via the use of computers.

Ok.

I was coming at it from this position. If you assume the human concept of 'laws of science' are an approximation of fundamental true 'laws of nature', I believe that the laws of science will forever be nothing more than an approximation because we can never learn enough to have true understanding. Not least because of the consequential self-referential problem. That is to say, I believe no-one or thing can ever understand or know or explain everything so long as they exist within the constraints of the laws they attempt to explain.

Of course the assumption I make is that there are fundamental truths to be known, but then living without that assumption is not conducive to a sane living experience.

[Flip McWho]

Personnally, everything is possible to be known and proven using science its just that we aren't knowledgable to do it yet and may never possibly be so.

[alva]

Originally posted by Trajanus


True. The reason for this is that in the industrial age, when scientific advance should have made everything easier for mankind, it did not thanks to the greed of the industrials and the rich in general. In those times the catholic church here (I'm talking especially about Belgium now) accepted large donations from the rich in return for support. That is keeping the masses stupid and making them accept their misery in that in the afterlife it would not matter anyway; they would be free from sorrow.
The church hardly did anything to improve the status of the working class, and that drove the 2 groups apart.

An answer to this was the socialist movement. In fact this socialist movement had the same goals as the catholic church. Improving the lives of the common people, but as the catholic church was totally corrupted another way out was sought out by the people itself. So therefore it's not surprising that many people were disgusted with the church. Not that they all became atheists all of a sudden but that was the first step of the fall of the decadent and evil church

o well, most of the know-it-all apolytoners know this already I guess

Oooh, somebody had to watch the Daems* movie at school....


* VERY good movie btw
[/plug]