Time Value of Money

[Flip McWho]

Yeah it was a good way to procrastinate earlier this morning (NZ time) instead of writing my essay. Now I've nearly finished so I'm considering procrastinating again. Damn forums.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I know what you mean. I lose sleep by posting instead of going to bed .

[Japher]

I lose work by posting... When I get home (like now, it's 730pm), it's family time, drink time, tv time, eat time, sleep time...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

only the labor used to build improvements on that property would create the value for that property.

Bull****. What about the capital, such as the land itself and the big dirt moving machines, etc, etc? They definetly create value for that property. Labor can't do it alone and neither can capital. They need each other.

The machines were created and operated by labor. Land doesn't create things.

Higher price can be asked for the house itself.

Or do you mean how is that supposed to create more goods and services? In your case, the government has prevented rent from indirectly creating more goods and services. That doesn't mean it wouldn't increase the value of the properties already being rented, however.

And the govt might do some rezoning. That doesn't create value. Does the Fed create value by lowering interest rates? No. It provides incentives in the economy for businesses to hire workers, but the workers create all of the value.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well of course... but it is nice to totally destroy Kid's arguments. He'll never change, but as long as you know it, it makes it not that bad.

Of course not. None of you have established anything that I disagree with. About all I see here is explainations how people who invest money get a return. No explainations at all about how that creates value.

Again a stawman has been set up and destroyed.

Nothing but smoke and mirrors.

Good night.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The machines were created and operated by labor.

And without machines the labor, by itself, would be useless in making the complex technological devices we have now.

the workers create all of the value.

No, they don't. Once again, you ignore the vital role of capital in creation of value. When you continue to ignore that you come off even more of an idiot than you did before .

And you persist in this idea that value can be created in someone way physically. The only creation of value comes from the perceptions of individuals.

[Japher]

Good night.

Off to watch "Lost"? Me too

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The machines were created and operated by labor.

And without machines the labor, by itself, would be useless in making the complex technological devices we have now.

This isn't a which came first the chicken or the egg deal. Labor created the machines period.

the workers create all of the value.

No, they don't. Once again, you ignore the vital role of capital in creation of value. When you continue to ignore that you come off even more of an idiot than you did before .

And you persist in this idea that value can be created in someone way physically. The only creation of value comes from the perceptions of individuals.

I guess you could say that I ignore some of the more ridiculous claims that you make.

Again. Assuming that money creates value to prove that money creates value is a circular argument. But then that's all you have. Still it's pretty said to continually show that you have no argument. Even DanS is smart enough to just spam and keep his fool mouth shut.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Labor created the machines period.

No, not period. Who cares if labor created the machines? Now the machines/land/capital are just as important, if not more so, than labor. For an example look at how cars are made these days.

Assuming that money creates value to prove that money creates value is a circular argument.

I've assumed money creates value? I thought I was pretty consistent in saying that value comes from prices, ie, the perceptions of people in the market. In fact I said that in the post you quoted. The most I've said is that labor and capital have vital roles in the creation of value. The interplay of them help determine the perceptions of how much value a product has.

Though I guess creating strawmen is nothing new to you .

[Flip McWho]

Why not? Explain

Ok how about this. Labour has no inherent value because the monetary system in which this value resides is an artificial construct and as such has an artificial value in monetary terms given to it by market forces i.e. supply and demand.

[Solomwi]

Cars are created with labor, Imran. Duh.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Cars are created with labor, Imran. Duh.

They are also created with capital, Solomwi. Duh.

Try to build a car without capital and see how well it turns out .

[Solomwi]

Would you like some help with that hook?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Had to respond, or else Kid may have used that as support for his position .

[Solomwi]

Touche. Kid and I have been through it before, though. Surely he wouldn't think I had seen the light.