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The assumption was an attempt to get you past your moralistic problem with rent. Which does fascilitate a greater production of goods and services. To argue that it doesn't is quite frankly insane. Of course you use different definitions then everyone else so, who knows.
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Accidently left my signature in this post. -
Well this isn't about the morality of rent. Of course I've been playing along a little, but no, you haven't been successfull at convincing me.Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The assumption was an attempt to get you past your moralistic problem with rent. Which does fascilitate a greater production of goods and services. To argue that it doesn't is quite frankly insane. Of course you use different definitions then everyone else so, who knows.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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You can almost never convince anyone who has their mind made up in an argument. Look back to why I was arguing, and in my mind we succeeded
Accidently left my signature in this post.Comment
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It's not that my mind was made up. It's that you didn't tell me anything that I haven't already considered.Originally posted by Moral Hazard
You can almost never convince anyone who has their mind made up in an argument. Look back to why I was arguing, and in my mind I succeeded
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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If I had a lot more money then I'd have a lot more free time on my hands. Seems pretty clear to me.<p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures
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This is the Time Value of Money. A given amount of money today (say $100) is worth more than the same amount of money in the future (again $100). Why? Because that $100 today can be invested and worth more in the future.Originally posted by Kidicious
None of that above does anything to justify this claim. All it shows is that you recieve rent, interest or whatever for your money if you put it in the financial system. Putting money in the financial system does not create a good or service and does not create value.
That's the time value of money; it's the definition. You have just been a bit confused about that. You might disagree with the words they use to name this, but the above is what it means.
When you buy a widget, the value is of owning the widget forever, and being able to do anything you want with it. That's what the price is in that case.Originally posted by Kidicious
Let me put it this way. Say I buy a widget from the producer. Is the price = to the value of that widget? Then I rent that widget out. Is the price + rent = value? Of course not. You can't have two different values just because time went by.
When you rent the widget, the rent is the value of being able to use the widget for a certain amount of time, without having to pay for the whole thing. Even if you end up paying more in rent, over a long time, than the purchase price of the widget, it can still be worthwhile (or the only thing you can do) if you needed that widget for that whole time and could never afford at any one moment to buy it (though in this case a lease to buy would have ben the wiser course).
You are paying for slightly different things in both cases. In the latter case, part of the money you spend is for the value of not having to pay the full price, and part of it is how much wear and tear you do to the widget (that part of its buy-value you use up). The former and later both vary with market forces, of couse.
Does that help?
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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Originally posted by Flip McWho
So this is basically
stuff then. That's cool, I need to hone some skills in economic debating.
You got it! 
Haven't been here for ages....Comment
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I'm not confused about that at all. I don't disagree with it.Originally posted by Drachasor
This is the Time Value of Money. A given amount of money today (say $100) is worth more than the same amount of money in the future (again $100). Why? Because that $100 today can be invested and worth more in the future.
That's the time value of money; it's the definition. You have just been a bit confused about that. You might disagree with the words they use to name this, but the above is what it means.
Let's go this way. Can we both agree that the person who rents the widget is the person who will get the most utility from using it?When you buy a widget, the value is of owning the widget forever, and being able to do anything you want with it. That's what the price is in that case.
When you rent the widget, the rent is the value of being able to use the widget for a certain amount of time, without having to pay for the whole thing. Even if you end up paying more in rent, over a long time, than the purchase price of the widget, it can still be worthwhile (or the only thing you can do) if you needed that widget for that whole time and could never afford at any one moment to buy it (though in this case a lease to buy would have ben the wiser course).
You are paying for slightly different things in both cases. In the latter case, part of the money you spend is for the value of not having to pay the full price, and part of it is how much wear and tear you do to the widget (that part of its buy-value you use up). The former and later both vary with market forces, of couse.
Does that help?
-DrachasorI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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It really depends.Originally posted by Kidicious
Let's go this way. Can we both agree that the person who rents the widget is the person who will get the most utility from using it?
Say widgets last for 10 years and I only want one for 1 year. It might well be cheaper for me to rent it instead of buying it. Perhaps I'd rather invest the excess money elsewhere into things that would make me more money, perhaps the fact that I don't want to have to worry about selling a year-old widget is part of the reason I'll pay a bit more too.
Sometimes people do get screwed though, but that can happen from just buying things too.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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I haven't heard of people paying for simply an idea. Paying for a realized idea or a protected idea (otherwise considered patents)? Sure... and those things have value based on what the price people are willing to pay for them.I guess so since ideas have economic value
Well, it doesn't directly do so, but may indirectly. Perhaps portential for rent will increase the value (ie, selling price) of a certain property.Rent increases money only. It does NOT produce anything of value in the economy.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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It really depends.
Yep... because use of the widget may increase the value/price of it, because other people see the person using the widget and see how much easier it makes their work. The rental value could go up significantly in some cases.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Well, if the person using the widget is not the person that would get the most utility from it then we have a problem there.Originally posted by Drachasor
It really depends.
Say widgets last for 10 years and I only want one for 1 year. It might well be cheaper for me to rent it instead of buying it. Perhaps I'd rather invest the excess money elsewhere into things that would make me more money, perhaps the fact that I don't want to have to worry about selling a year-old widget is part of the reason I'll pay a bit more too.
Sometimes people do get screwed though, but that can happen from just buying things too.
-Drachasor
I was going here. When the widget is transfered the owner gives up exclusive rights to the widget. Therefore he can recieve no more utility from it. That is a loss in utility. Now the renter gets to utilize the widget.
Start with this. What is this increase in value that you speak of? Nevermind that the owner recieves rent, and therefor becomes richer. I already know this of course, and it's completely irrelevent. Of course, the person who rents the widget is poorer, and that's why. There is no increase in value there, only a transer in wealth.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I haven't heard of people paying for simply an idea. Paying for a realized idea or a protected idea (otherwise considered patents)? Sure... and those things have value based on what the price people are willing to pay for them.
We aren't talking about patents for new technologies. We're talking about political ideas.
Selling assets doesn't increase value either, in so much as it doesn't result in economic benefits.Well, it doesn't directly do so, but may indirectly. Perhaps portential for rent will increase the value (ie, selling price) of a certain property.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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The person renter the wigdet gets the value of using it for the rental period.
It's like ice cream; you use up your value and then you are out the money, but you still have whatever value you accumlated while you used it.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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Oh please stop making obvious, irrelevent statements.Originally posted by Drachasor
The person renter the wigdet gets the value of using it for the rental period.
It's like ice cream; you use up your value and then you are out the money, but you still have whatever value you accumlated while you used it.
-DrachasorI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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