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I think we all can agree that Kerry is a master debater.
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No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful. -
Actually, I thought that one of his weaker moments actually. His decision to empahisize a French anecdote was IMO ill advised. As for the world alienation that is not fertile ground as many in the US are isolationistic bastards who would like nothing more than to give the finger to the rest of the dissenting (you know the ones not with us) world.Originally posted by Boshko
I think his best bit was the anecdote about De Gaulle and JFK about how America's credibility with the world has been damaged. I don't think that he did quite enough to pound home how much more difficult Bush's alientation of most of the world will make it for us to gather an alliance in the future or how much of America's credibility Bush has burned."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I think we all can agree that Kerry is a master debater.To us, it is the BEAST.Comment
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Well my bosses are off on a business trip to Canada so I have Thursday and Friday off this week. But it was on at 10 AM here, which isn't that early. My first class it at 3:30 when I do work...Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
How in the hell did you see it? You not work on Fridays or something?Stop Quoting BenComment
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Yeah, he mentioned not going into Fallujah in passing and not doing enough to train Iraqis earlier but didn't pound them home enough.Originally posted by Ramo
Kerry did a crappy job of calling Bush on the specifics of the Iraq policy. He droned on too much about alliances.Stop Quoting BenComment
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Polls on who did better:
CBS ABC
Kerry 44 45
Bush 26 36
Unsure 30 17
The immediate polls and the punditocracy seem to have declared Kerry the winner. Which will stick (as 2000 showed us). The expectation games have turned Kerry's moderate victory into a decisive Kerry victory.
The Daily Show coverage is ****ing hilarious, BTW.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Why did you even bother posting CBS numbers?"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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I disagree. He employed a powerful tactic in showing how the French had once trusted the Americans, or the undertone, how a president like Kennedy and by implication Kerry would subjugate the French by his own manner and trustworthiness. The Americans want global hegemony one way or the other but Kerry showed how that can be achieved through trustActually, I thought that one of his weaker moments actually. His decision to empahisize a French anecdote was IMO ill advised. As for the world alienation that is not fertile ground as many in the US are isolationistic bastards who would like nothing more than to give the finger to the rest of the dissenting (you know the ones not with us) world..
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:Comment
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CNN POLL!Created: Thursday, September 30, 2004, at 21:06:37 EDT
Who do you think won the first U.S. presidential debate?
President George W. Bush
17%
6776 votes
Sen. John Kerry
79%
31223 votes
Evenly matched
3%
1306 votes
Total: 39305 votes
This QuickVote is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, nor the public as a whole. The QuickVote sponsor is not responsible for content, functionality or the opinions expressed therein.
To us, it is the BEAST.Comment
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Why did you even bother posting CBS numbers?
Yeah, they're suppressing a far more substantial (related to Niger Uranium) story that would hurt Bush until after the election in fear of appearing partisan, so obviously the numbers have a pro-Bush bias.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Sava, that's an online poll. Those numbers don't mean much."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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And he picked DeGaulle, the epitomy of French-centricism.?Originally posted by Whaleboy
I disagree. He employed a powerful tactic in showing how the French had once trusted the Americans, or the undertone, how a president like Kennedy and by implication Kerry would subjugate the French by his own manner and trustworthiness. The Americans want global hegemony one way or the other but Kerry showed how that can be achieved through trust.
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Do tell on the Niger Uranium story (havenot heard thisone yet).Originally posted by Ramo
Why did you even bother posting CBS numbers?
Yeah, they're suppressing a far more substantial (related to Niger Uranium) story that would hurt Bush until after the election in fear of appearing partisan, so obviously the numbers have a pro-Bush bias.
Regardless those who are currently watching CBS are by default Kerry-ites as anyone having even a passisng familiarity with Rathergate has left their sinking ship."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Touché"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:Comment
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I missed the first 15 minutes or so. lI think this one was better than average as these things go. Partisan rantings aside, nobody got pwn3d (eg., the Poles do not consider themselves under Soviet domination, you're no jack kennedy, etc.).
Agree with Boshko that the DeGaulle bit (assist to Dean Acheson) clearly illustrated Kerry's point about american prestige in the world. Also think Kerry helped clarify things greatly by saying the issue was not that Saddam was a threat, but what we DO about that threat. Kerry loses points for not pushing these issues home more effectively. Bush seemed to me to rely too much on the buzzwords of free, democratic, and enemy. But Bush did seem fairly effective in using Kerry's prior positions to throw up obstacles aht Kerry had to work around.
Credit to both candidates for declining the opportunity to throw buckets of dirt at each other over the character question. Maybe there is hope for us yet.
Overall, Bush B-, Kerry B
Disagree with Ramo. Kerry is behind in the polls, so for him a tie is a loss.Old posters never die.
They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....Comment
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