Kerry's Speech on Iraq

[Giancarlo]

Well ted, then get it from the best and most credible source...

http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3970

[DinoDoc]

They need to update some of those though.

This is my fave:

October 2003: Kerry Calls Fence “Barrier To Peace.” “And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israel’s security over the long- term, they increase hardships to the Palestinian people, and they make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks Before Arab American Institute National Leadership Conference, Dearborn, MI, 10/17/03)

February 2004: Kerry Calls Fence “Legitimate Act Of Self-Defense.” “US Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the frontrunner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, described Israel’s construction of a security barrier as a ‘legitimate act of self defense’ after Sunday’s suicide bombing in Jerusalem, clarifying a position he took in October when he told an Arab American audience, ‘We don’t need another barrier to peace.’” (Janine Zacharia, “Kerry Defends Security Fence,” The Jerusalem Post, 2/25/04)

[Drake Tungsten]

For lazy Drake

Since when is being busy equated with laziness? I do actually have to teach at work, you know...

If you really believe they are simply general recommendations on what Bush should do and not Kerry's plan of attack for Iraq, then you are seriously deluded.

If it really is Kerry's plan of attack for Iraq, why didn't he present it as such? Why couch the plan as a recommendation to Bush if it's really your plan of action? Kerry's obviously giving himself some wiggle room with this phrasing; I'd like to know why. Why not present a clear-cut plan for Iraq, finally?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why couch the plan as a recommendation to Bush

Since when he did he couch it as a recommendation to Bush? He is saying what a President should do in this situation and highlighting the fact that Bush isn't doing it; therefore, he isn't doing what a person who is the President should be doing in Iraq. It's akin to a 'reasonable President' standard. A reasonable President should do X, Y, Z, meaning that Kerry will do X, Y, and Z, but Bush has failed to do so on all accounts and won't be able to in the future (like Bush can really get the allies back no matter what he does). When he says "The President should" he is contrasting what a President should do (ie, what he'd do) and what Bush is doing, which is opposed to it.

When Bush in 2000 said a that the President should stand for integrity was he making a recommendation to President Clinton or setting out how he was different from Clinton?

Do you really think that he is saying these things so that Bush does them between now and the election? Really?

[Drake Tungsten]

Well, when he recommends that "the President" should hold a summit this week, it shouldn't take a ****ing rocket scientist to figure out who he's talking about...

edit:

Do you really think that he is saying these things so that Bush does them between now and the election? Really?

What do think he meant by this?

The President should convene a summit meeting of the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbors, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the U.N. General Assembly.

OMG, you are so ****ing pwned.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And like I said, he is contrasting what a normal, rational President (ie, like himself) would do and contrasts that with Bush. The President should hold a summit this week, but Bush won't. If Kerry was President he would hold a summit this week and if he's elected he'll hold a summit as soon as possible. He's showing the contrasts between Bush's actions and a reasonable President's actions. Bush won't do what should be done, but I will - is the just.

It's quite obvious that Kerry has laid out a plan for Iraq here.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
They need to update some of those though.

This is my fave:

October 2003: Kerry Calls Fence “Barrier To Peace.” “And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israel’s security over the long- term, they increase hardships to the Palestinian people, and they make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks Before Arab American Institute National Leadership Conference, Dearborn, MI, 10/17/03)

February 2004: Kerry Calls Fence “Legitimate Act Of Self-Defense.” “US Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the frontrunner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, described Israel’s construction of a security barrier as a ‘legitimate act of self defense’ after Sunday’s suicide bombing in Jerusalem, clarifying a position he took in October when he told an Arab American audience, ‘We don’t need another barrier to peace.’” (Janine Zacharia, “Kerry Defends Security Fence,” The Jerusalem Post, 2/25/04)

A legitimate act of self-defense can be a barrier to peace

[Drake Tungsten]

Do you really think that he is saying these things so that Bush does them between now and the election? Really?

But we cannot afford to wait until January. President Bush owes it to the American people to tell the truth and put Iraq on the right track. Even more, he owes it to our troops and their families, whose sacrifice is a testament to the best of America.

Obviously Kerry isn't making a recommendation to Bush!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Funny, because that is well after the four major points he makes to win the peace in Iraq.

Nice try to take something unrelated to the plan for Iraq and attempt to try to make it fit in there.

And even there, once again, Kerry is saying that is what a reasonable President would do... and Bush ain't going to do that.

[Drake Tungsten]

Well after? It's only five paragraphs after Kerry starts his "fourth" point!

edit: And it comes in the paragraph that functions as the closing of Kerry's "four points"! Yep, it's totally unrelated!

[Imran Siddiqui]

And of course you ignore the most salient statement after his four points:

This is what has to be done. This is what I would do as President today.

Not calling it is own plan?

Face it... you've been PWNED.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And it comes in the paragraph that functions as the closing of Kerry's "four points"!

You mean the one where Kerry says that it is his plan and Bush won't do any of it? Yeah, that's a real 'recommendation' to Bush.

[Giancarlo]

You can't PWN somebody who is right, Imran.

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't care what Kerry says he would do as President today, since that's impossible and he'll never be called on it. What I'd like is for him to go on the record about what he plans to do in Iraq if elected. Straight up, not presented as some easily dismissable set of recommendations for Bush. I want the man to take a stand on an issue for a change.

[Drake Tungsten]

You can't PWN somebody who is right, Imran.

You tell him, Fezzie.