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Originally posted by Caligastia
Just let eveyone in? Whether they can support themselves or not? Whether they want to kill Americans or not?
well most illegals are here to work... isn't that the reason illegal immigration is such a "problem"? because they take jobs? I don't care if they want to work hard. If they want to live in poverty, so be it. And killing Americans? There aren't many terrorists out there. We shouldn't let fear or the threat of terrorists dictate our policies. If the terrorists are dictating are actions, they've won. Plus, by making these "illegals", legal, we are making it easier to document would-be terrorists.
So you don't think a country should have the right to decide who comes in?
Yes and No... it's a question of practicality. America is not a fortress... it's not (supposed to be) a police state. In order to stop illegals, we'd need to place guards across the border to keep people out. And the people that do make it across, we need to ship them out. That's going to cost a ****load of money. Personally, I think we should spend tax dollars mroe wisely. Closing the borders would be a massive waste of money.
Plus, we're a free and open society. And a free and open society doesn't restrict the movement of it's citizens or immigrants. I want America to be a free country. We can deal with the problems that being a free country creates.
"The next time you pass through an airport and have to produce a photo ID to establish who you are and then must remove your shoes, take off your belt, empty your pockets, prove your laptop is not an explosive device and send your briefcase or purse through a machine to determine whether it holds weapons, think about this: In a single day, more than 4,000 illegal aliens will walk across the busiest unlawful gateway into the U.S., the 375-mile border between Arizona and Mexico," begins the report, "Who Left the Door Open?" "No searches for weapons. No shoe removal. No photo-ID checks. Before long, many will obtain phony identification papers, including bogus Social Security numbers, to conceal their true identities and mask their unlawful presence."
Originally posted by Caligastia
Are you somehow comparing me, a legal resident, to some border-hopping illegal?
Yes! You're a dirty foreigner, aren't you? Who cares how you got here. Go home! We don't want you here! America for Americans! You dope smoking hippie!
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Originally posted by Sava
well most illegals are here to work... isn't that the reason illegal immigration is such a "problem"? because they take jobs? I don't care if they want to work hard. If they want to live in poverty, so be it.
The problem is that they are costing the American taxpayer 10 Billion every year. Do you really want to let in more people who can't pay their own way?
And killing Americans? There aren't many terrorists out there. We shouldn't let fear or the threat of terrorists dictate our policies. If the terrorists are dictating are actions, they've won.
So being conscious of terrorists, our weak points, and changing our policies in response to this is "letting the terrorists win"?
Plus, by making these "illegals", legal, we are making it easier to document would-be terrorists.
How so? Do you think a terrorist is going to be truthful if asked to give their name? And "legalizing" the illegals would increase their burden on the taxpayer to 27 Billion a year.
Yes and No... it's a question of practicality. America is not a fortress... it's not (supposed to be) a police state. In order to stop illegals, we'd need to place guards across the border to keep people out. And the people that do make it across, we need to ship them out. That's going to cost a ****load of money.
10 Billion a year would go a long way towards enforcing the border. Just stepping up enforcement alone would act as a deterrent.
Personally, I think we should spend tax dollars mroe wisely. Closing the borders would be a massive waste of money.
It would cost less tax dollars in the long run to enforce the border. By ignoring the problem you let it grow.
Plus, we're a free and open society. And a free and open society doesn't restrict the movement of it's citizens or immigrants. I want America to be a free country. We can deal with the problems that being a free country creates.
Should being "free and open" mean ignoring the entry of your enemies?
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
Yes! You're a dirty foreigner, aren't you? Who cares how you got here. Go home! We don't want you here! America for Americans! You dope smoking hippie!
Wow, you can't even see the difference. Marxism has really blinded you.
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
Originally posted by Japher
If you don't live in CA, AZ, NM, TX, or maybe even Florida, you just don't see what illegal immigration actually does to a state, not to mention a community. There are pros and cons, but, IMO, the cons far out weight the pros; most ending up in the prison system.
Amen!
The Center for Immigration Studies estimates the cost of illegals at 10 Billion a year.
Originally posted by Caligastia
The problem is that they are costing the American taxpayer 10 Billion every year. Do you really want to let in more people who can't pay their own way?
The Pentagon probably wastes that much in the time it takes to type this message. And most of that cost is with shipping them out and holding them.
So being conscious of terrorists, our weak points, and changing our policies in response to this is "letting the terrorists win"?
According to critics of the spanish election... changing policies because of terrorists means the terrorists win.
How so? Do you think a terrorist is going to be truthful if asked to give their name? And "legalizing" the illegals would increase their burden on the taxpayer to 27 Billion a year.
because we can use intelligence to identify and aprehend known terrorists... we can't do that if they are hopping a border unbeknownst to us.
10 Billion a year would go a long way towards enforcing the border. Just stepping up enforcement alone would act as a deterrent.
look at the cost of the Iraq war. We can't even secure the Iraq border and we're spending more than $100 billion per year there. It'd cost a whole ****load more to try and secure the Mexican border.
It would cost less tax dollars in the long run to enforce the border. By ignoring the problem you let it grow.
How would enforcing the border cost less? Would border guards work for free? Would all the supplies they need be provided free of charge? What about detention centers and the cost of deporting aliens? All of that is going to cost money my friend.
Should being "free and open" mean ignoring the entry of your enemies?
The entry of our enemies? What enemies? How many terrorists have been confirmed coming across the Mexican border? Did the 9-11 hijackers come across the border? Sorry, but even if terrorists DID come into the country that way (because they haven't) I still don't think we should close the borders just to stop a couple dozen would-be terrorists.
We need to streamline the legal immigration system so that we don't have a flood of people crossing the border. We need to open things, not close them. That way, we can better patrol the borders because we're not dealing with tons of people crossing it.
Originally posted by Caligastia
Wow, you can't even see the difference. Marxism has really blinded you.
The sad thing is that you think for most Americans there is a difference. The anti-immigrant movement, whith whih you have insanely allied yourself, is not against illegal immigration. They are opposed to immigration, legal and illegal.
Me, personally, I don't care whether you're here legally or illegaly. Welcome.
The saddest thing, though, is that you can't tell sarcasm.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Legal immigrants respect our laws and work with in the system even if it is inconvient and costs them money while illegal immigrants flout the laws and tell us they are to good to wait in lines. What is worse is that they are breaking the law for personal financial gain.
Which type of immigrant do you think a country should focus on? One who respects laws or one who will ignore the law when ever they can make money by doing so?
Originally posted by Oerdin
Legal immigrants respect our laws and work with in the system even if it is inconvient and costs them money while illegal immigrants flout the laws and tell us they are to good to wait in lines.
I don't respect our laws. I speed, smoke dope, etc. Are you suggesting I should hold others to a standard which I do not hold myself to?
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Originally posted by Oerdin
Legal immigrants respect our laws and work with in the system even if it is inconvient and costs them money while illegal immigrants flout the laws and tell us they are to good to wait in lines. What is worse is that they are breaking the law for personal financial gain.
Which type of immigrant do you think a country should focus on? One who respects laws or one who will ignore the law when ever they can make money by doing so?
You're assuming that legal immigration is a fast and easy process. If that were the case, I'd agree with you.
I bet if you were iin the shoes of an illegal, you'd do the same thing.
Choice 1: Live in a ****hole with no job, education, health... basically a third world situation.
Choice 2: Jump a border, play a crapshoot that you can come to America.
Personally, I think "illegal" immigrants' willingness to go through all **** just to come here proves they are the type of person that wants to live in freedom and prosperity.
And also Oerdin, the immigration process is so unfair and skewed. Some rich Saudi would have no problem coming to America, but some poor Mexican is **** out of luck.
Illegal Immigrants are theifs, IMO, and they start to be one the minute the cross into the country in a cloak and dagger type fashion w/o visas or any form of documentation. Once in, they continue to be theifs, cheaters, liars, and criminals. Illegal Immigrants are not just criminals for how they came into the country, they are criminals for what they do and how they behave once they get here, it IS afterall their nature. Once a cheat, always a cheat... most of the time.
Still, if we have to allow legal immigrants in I say we still bar those damn Kiwis
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The sad thing is that you think for most Americans there is a difference. The anti-immigrant movement, whith whih you have insanely allied yourself, is not against illegal immigration. They are opposed to immigration, legal and illegal.
Che: There is a difference. There is a huge difference. One is a criminal and the other is not. One choices to follow our laws even if they are inconvient while the other one flips us the bird and does what ever the hell he wants.
I will always be against looking the other way when people commit criminal acts. It's not ok, it's not harmless, and it is wrong. There are tons of people who want in to this country and who are willing to do things through the legal process. Those bastards who cut in line are just spitting in the faces of all the good people who are trying to immigrant here using the legal process.
If we didn't have jobs for them, they wouldn't be here. Demand for illegal immigrants is what brings them here.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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