Rallying Point: Liberty Island - Refugees from Kidatopia, report!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Solomwi


So you dispute the notion?

Uhh, I used to work for one who did just that. There's a lot of money to be made in making a hole or ditch where there was dirt, Kid.

Yes, you worked for him. That's how he became rich. He didn't become rich by digging the ditches himself.

[Velociryx]

WhoooHoooo! Solo....first thing we need your skills for tho, is to map the island thoroughly....we'll need both a topographical map (unless we can find one to bring), and a copy that breaks the island down into five-acre plots for when we're ready to take it to the next step.

After that tho, hail yes!

Kid, I'm a nominee....I've not even been seconded yet. There's no guarantee that even if I AM seconded, I'll win the election.

Until then, there's ditches that need digging, fish to be caught, domes to be assembled, water sources to be found, maps to be made.....in short, it's not going to be the case that I'll be diligently digging away while everyone else is sitting around watching me work.

Now as long as you're here, how 'bout grabbing up one of our homemade shovels and giving me a hand, or get back to Kidatopia and enjoy your unlimited power....

-=Vel=-

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Why don't you just come over to my house. I have plenty of work for you to do, and I won't pay you much at all.

'

See he still doesn't get it-- You can only "exploit" me at a wage I'm willing to take.

When Vel digs a ditch for anyone other than himself, we have to give him enough whether it be bananas, electricity, fish or whatever to make it worth his while. If he figures two hours to dig the ditch and that he could gather 8 bananas in that time, someone better be willing to pony up 9+ or he will go gather bananas-- Thats the market at work

[Ramo]

Fields will not be "communal" but will operate on good capitalistic principles. If everyone just so happens to own equal shareholdings in LCC or whatever entity owns those fields,

So fields are actually going to be communal, but you're just going to pretend otherwise.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Solomwi
There need be no struggle, as the ditch digger will be the first one to smuggle in a backhoe, and he'll probably get rich digging.

What do you use to pay him? Some sort of fugal growth?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Oh...and for clarification....we're not revolutionaries...we're refugees.

There IS no government on this island, so we're not replacing anything.

Rather, we're building something from scratch.

-=Vel=-

Obviously you are not though, being burdened by the social conciousness of the past- in essence you are a bunch of utopians seeking to create a new society- a revolutionary act.

But the dictatorship has begun. After all, why is Vel the only one setting goals here? Where are the other voices?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


What do you use to pay him? Some sort of fugal growth?

No. The ditch digger gets to be the Big Kahuna. It always works like that.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Flubber
'

See he still doesn't get it-- You can only "exploit" me at a wage I'm willing to take.

When Vel digs a ditch for anyone other than himself, we have to give him enough whether it be bananas, electricity, fish or whatever to make it worth his while. If he figures two hours to dig the ditch and that he could gather 8 bananas in that time, someone better be willing to pony up 9+ or he will go gather bananas-- Thats the market at work

Does Vel have a monopoly in ditch digging? Does he not set his own price?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Velociryx
* Solving the food problem (one crop, maybe two to get a surplus built up), plus working to increase our catch.

Nah, not so fast.

Your first problem will be water. Suppose there's no surface water on the island you fled to. Now what?

[Velociryx]

Flubber, an excellent idea, even if I believe that you're overstating the latitude that Kid will grant us upon leaving.

I would dearly hope you'd be right, but if it is indeed to be the "worst case scenario" I am uncertain that we'd have access to all the cool toys you mention.

If we CAN gain that sort of access, then so much the better, and further, I can see no reason why both plans can't be operating at the same time. Being that the goal OF the governing body is to establish the framework FOR a thriving capitalist system, LCC can be our first (so far) great experiment to that end.

A barometer, if you will. Based on your experience (and the experience of others who form businesses), this will provide badly needed information about what changes need to be made or implemented in order to facilitate the growth of the system we seek to design.

And GePap, I believe you posted slightly too quickly....

-=Vel=-

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Flubber
In LCC I am issuing 100 shares to Flubber-- In return for those shares I am providing

2 dozen egg laying chickens
3 roosters
2 pair of rabbits
2 shovels
1 pickaxe
I maddox
2 rakes
1 hoe
2 watering cans
200 feet of rope
2 hammers
1 bucksaw
6 10' x 20' tarps

You know what you are missing?

Chicken feed.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
'

See he still doesn't get it-- You can only "exploit" me at a wage I'm willing to take.

When Vel digs a ditch for anyone other than himself, we have to give him enough whether it be bananas, electricity, fish or whatever to make it worth his while. If he figures two hours to dig the ditch and that he could gather 8 bananas in that time, someone better be willing to pony up 9+ or he will go gather bananas-- Thats the market at work

No. Vel said he wants to be exploited. No wait. He said you ALL want to be exploited. My offer stands. If you all like being exploited so much, I won't pay you any more than you want to be paid. You can work for nothing if you like exploitation so much.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ramo

So fields are actually going to be communal, but you're just going to pretend otherwise.

Sort of--Agriculture will initially work best a s a monopoly and most smart business folks would want to own a piece of a monopoly. we may not all have equal shareholdings, and some folks may decide they are better off to run their own business completely.

As the founder of the LCC I issue the shares for now but people will only buy in if they perceive equal value. Will LCC be communal? Perhaps or perhaps not. People will decide to invest or not. and then once invested , they will weigh employment opportunities offered by it with other opportunities. If LCC offers 8 bananas an hour and Velco electricity is offering 10, then LCC will have trouble attracting labour ( whichj is scarce)

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Yes, you worked for him. That's how he became rich. He didn't become rich by digging the ditches himself.

No, he built his business by digging the ditch himself. When it got big enough to buy another hoe, he hired someone else. By the time I got there, it was a multimillion dollar business and he needed another engineer, so he made me pretty well off, as well. I assure you, I didn't mind being exploited.

Bottom line is that people needed ditches, and he was able to provide them, so he got rich.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Flubber
If he figures two hours to dig the ditch and that he could gather 8 bananas in that time, someone better be willing to pony up 9+ or he will go gather bananas-- Thats the market at work

Or cut down all the banana trees except those which belong to the prospective employer-- That's capitalism at work.