Communists, Don't Fear the Reaper....:D

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
And now...I shall wait and see how you answer some more of my questions, to see if I want to be a part of the New Utopia, or if I'll be one of the ones taken out in the final swift blow...

-=Vel=-

I'm not going through all of that. Pick something and repost it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
But wait...doesn't that mean I got more "stuff" than my neighbors now?

No. He has the stuff that he wants and you have the stuff that you want. How can you compare the two.

[Dauphin]

Is this the annual 'Shooting Kidicious fish in a barrel' thread?

[Velociryx]

Sure thing...even tho you're exploiting me, making me do your work...but here goes....

1) Do you believe/understand the concept of the time-value of money? How does this get worked into the wage-equality system where You can do something that does not require intelligence and have the opportunity to make just as much money by working hard I mean, if I study Neurosurgery for FIFTEEN YEARS....does that time just not count? Why should the guy who spent five minutes learning to dig a ditch make as much as me? Is that "fair" according to your definition? If so...how, exactly?

2) Why is Physical Labor and ONLY Physical Labor "work" Why does analysis, planning, designing, and thinking not count as work. What specifically makes physical labor so different from these that it needs a special category?

3) Let's say that it is the decision of the People's Planning Committee that everybody will get a brand new $50,000 vehicle on implementation day.

But see...I don't care about cars. As long as it gets me from point A to point B, I'm happy.

My next door neighbor has an old Ford truck, and I like that. So I give him my $50k Car (he wanted an extra one), and he gives me his truck and $30k dollars.

At this point, have we broken any rules of the Utopia?

4) If not....I now have the potential for a LOT more stuff, on account of the fact that I'm driving a cheaper car, and can now go out and have a big deck built onto the back of my house and the hot tub installed.

But wait...doesn't that mean I got more "stuff" than my neighbors now?

I mean, it's not fair that I have a hot tub and they don't, right? So....what's the solution? You gonna come confiscate it? Make me give it back? Insist that everybody in the neighborhood be given equal access TO the hot tub? What?

5) And what if I CHOOSE to be "exploited"?

What if I offer to cut my neighbor's lawn for thirty bucks? Who gets arrested in that situation? Him, for exploiting me...me for asking him to, or both of us for reinventing the banned system?

6) If I do that enough, won't I start making a lot more money than all my neighbors? And with that money, do you not imagine that I'll be able to buy more stuff than them?

7) is there some mechanism in place that...every month or so, we'll gather up all of everyone's posessions and re-distribute them equally, so it's never "unfair" for more than a week or so?

8) to prevent human habits from entering into the equation (like smoking, in Flubber's example above), will it be a national requirement that everybody smokes two packs a day? That way we're all consuming the exact same amount. Of course, we'll have to ration everything that way then. X gallons of gas, and no more, per week. X pounds of food. Cos if I eat less...I could save money and have more than my neighbors, and that wouldn't be fair. True?

9) (taken from a question by Flubber) Even if everyone out there made exactly the same income, I would acquire more stuff than my smoking drinking neighbor. so I get a nicer couch and TV, perhaps I get a car while he rides the bus-- Bottom line is some people will be foolish with their earnings-- Do you give them a couch and a car too.

(and your reply) No, of course not. Why can't you understand that I believe in fairness. Fairness is not a difficult concept.

My question to this is....why NOT give him a couch and a car!? It's just not fair that he has less than Flubber! Isn't that what you've been arguing against the entire time?

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
But wait...doesn't that mean I got more "stuff" than my neighbors now?

(your response) No. He has the stuff that he wants and you have the stuff that you want. How can you compare the two.


Kid....if YOU can compare the two, then it is fair game for me to do so as well.

Your big beef is that you don't want anybody being able to get ahead of you.

So maybe the guy who I sold my fancy car to didn't KNOW he wanted a hot tub until he saw mine. People's needs, wants, and desires DO change over time, you know?

So now he DOES NOT have all the stuff he wants, cos he wants a hot tub too. So it's not fair that I have one, and he doesn't. Right?

What to do? Do I have to reverse the transaction where I sold him the car and sell him my hot tub? But then, I was the one who wanted the hot tub in the first place...so that wouldn't be very fair to me, would it?

Is The State going to make me share it with my neighbors who are now green with envy? Equal access to my hot tub (which is MINE, by the way, since it is a piece of property that cannot be used to exploit someone else....hot chicks who love hot tubs notwithstanding.... )

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Sure thing...even tho you're exploiting me, making me do your work...but here goes....

1) Do you believe/understand the concept of the time-value of money? How does this get worked into the wage-equality system where You can do something that does not require intelligence and have the opportunity to make just as much money by working hard I mean, if I study Neurosurgery for FIFTEEN YEARS....does that time just not count? Why should the guy who spent five minutes learning to dig a ditch make as much as me? Is that "fair" according to your definition? If so...how, exactly?

You get paid for your training.

2) Why is Physical Labor and ONLY Physical Labor "work" Why does analysis, planning, designing, and thinking not count as work. What specifically makes physical labor so different from these that it needs a special category?

I specifically told Arian that analysing was a job in the last thread. Holy Cow! This is why your damn posts are so long and pointless.

[JohnT]

This thread needs more cowbell.

[Velociryx]

Well...that's a good start. Two out of nine.

And yes. You told Arrian that analysis was a job, but see...there's a problem with that. Analysis is thinking. And you've already said that thinking is not work. So....what's it going to be this hour? Is it work, or is it not?

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Well...that's a good start. Two out of nine.

And yes. You told Arrian that analysis was a job, but see...there's a problem with that. Analysis is thinking. And you've already said that thinking is not work. So....what's it going to be this hour? Is it work, or is it not?

-=Vel=-

People are always thinking. Try not to think. You can't pay for that.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
My question to this is....why NOT give him a couch and a car!? It's just not fair that he has less than Flubber! Isn't that what you've been arguing against the entire time?

-=Vel=-

He got a fair income for fair work. He got the same as Flubber.

[Velociryx]

Ahhh...I see. Just don't think, huh? Let The State Machine do that for me and all will be well?

And about the poor couchless fellow....so he got the same pay....but Flubber is still getting ahead of him because he squandered his earnings. Isn't that what you are trying to avoid.

Imagine the scene in twenty or thirty years. Flubber's kids have their own cars and stuff cos he was prudent with his money, while the other guys kids have to take the bus, don't have their own playstation...nothing! It sucks and it's not fair! Why should Flubber's kids get all the breaks and good toys and stuff....the other guys kids deserve them too.

Isn't that a good case for periodic redistribution of material wealth under your system...so it STAYS fair? Cos over the course of years, Flubber's GRANDKIDS will be REALLY well to do....almost....in another class, you might say.

-=Vel=-

PS: Just didn't feel like tackling the other seven questions, eh? I don't blame you....we'll just leave that to the State...

[Kidlicious]

Is that suppose to be an argument against equality of income?

[GePap]

So wait, all of a sudden Kidicious is the grand theorist of communism, as opposed to Marx, Engels and so forth?

Since when?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap
So wait, all of a sudden Kidicious is the grand theorist of communism, as opposed to Marx, Engels and so forth?

Since when?

[Velociryx]

Is that suppose to be an argument against equality of income? Nope...just trying to push your thinking on it a little bit. See how robust the system is. Got an answer, or not really?

So wait, all of a sudden Kidicious is the grand theorist of communism, as opposed to Marx, Engels and so forth?

Since when?

Since never...but since this IS the brand of Utopia he's pushing, I thought maybe it'd be good to ask him a few questions about it.

-=Vel=-