Bush wasted 27 minutes, not 7.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Arrian
This is such a stupid, trivial thing.

What he did in the first 7 or 27 minutes doesn't really matter to me. What he did over the course of the next three years DOES.

-Arrian

and this is a much more valid criticism.

[DinoDoc]

/me heaps much scorn on Ogie for raising the annoying dead.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Are you sure Cheney tried to give orders to shoot down jets? I've been wondering about this but haven't found anything that says one way or the other.

IIRC from watching most of the hearings, the vice-president did give the OK to shoot down the fourth plane. That order did not reach the pilots or their commander in good time (and I dont remember why). Needless to say, there was massive confusion that morning and it wasnt clear whether a fourth plane was even involved. The air force commander of the jets on station above Washington did testify that he would have ordered the shoot down on his authority but that the fourth airliner had not been found on radar (and in fact it had already crashed at that time that the OK came from the vice president).

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

/me ducks said piles of festering scorn and laughs mightily.

[Impaler[WrG]]

My recolection is that Dick Cheny ordered Jets Scrambled and ordered them to intercept the 4th plane, aparently their was sutch haste that these planes weren't even armed before taking off and the pilots were planing on simply kamakazying the Jet if it would not respond.

Also I would like to point out that no one even seems to be cognizant of the fact that the president being able to order the US Military to kill American Civilians for some "greater good" even a very clear and present one would infact be a HUGE extention of executive power. Its always the case that people abandon their own morale judgments durring a crisis and defer to some higher athority. Like a ratcheted wrench is the power of the executive, easily advanced when the oportunity presents itself and very hard to reverse once the crisis is over (especialy if they make shure the crisis never ends)

I worry about the slippery slope here, how clear would the danger have to be for it to be acceptable to order inocent civilians killed in order to prevent more people from being killed?, presumably everyone on that plane was doomed anyways so you could have a rather clear conchence for this case but what if thats not the case in the future? Has their been any debate over this? It seems to have been swallowed by the public completly.

[DinoDoc]

Said piles of scorn gel into a nightmarish creature and start hunting Ogie

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

/me opens bottle of Drano sure to unclog any nightmarish gel.

[DinoDoc]

Curses! You've escaped justice! This time...

[Kuciwalker]

/me grabs popcorn

[Ming]

And Ming starts hunting for spammers... and may not have to look much farther... SO STAY ON TOPIC!

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
My recolection is that Dick Cheny ordered Jets Scrambled and ordered them to intercept the 4th plane, aparently their was sutch haste that these planes weren't even armed before taking off and the pilots were planing on simply kamakazying the Jet if it would not respond.

The first jets scrambled were unarmed but jets were in the air that could/would have shot down the fourth airliner prior to it reaching Washington.

Also I would like to point out that no one even seems to be cognizant of the fact that the president being able to order the US Military to kill American Civilians for some "greater good" even a very clear and present one would infact be a HUGE extention of executive power. I worry about the slippery slope here, how clear would the danger have to be for it to be acceptable to order inocent civilians killed in order to prevent more people from being killed, presumably everyone on that plane was doomed anyways so you could have a rather clear conchence for this case but what if thats not the case in the future?

Its an interesting question. I would put it in the context of combat and yes commanders have the responsibility to make such decisions.

[Lefty Scaevola]

nevermind, just saw the Ming edict.

[DinoDoc]

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tuberski


So then, why is the 27 minutes such a big deal?

ACK!

Well, why are any specifics important?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SpencerH
IIRC from watching most of the hearings, the vice-president did give the OK to shoot down the fourth plane.

On what authority did Cheney give that order? Though I might agree with it being correct, the Veep has no place giving commands to the military.

Impaler[WrG], in this case, the authorities weren't ordering the deaths of American citizens, but ordering the shooting down of an enemy weapon.