John Kerry the war criminal: Unfit to command, part 2

[Ned]

Pekka, You also do not seem to understand that Kerry received his medals based on false reports he himself filed. Virtually all of his fellow officers who served with Kerry and were at the same engagements flatly state that Kerry lied in those reports.

But more than this. Kerry was also a very bad commander in a number of respects, so much so that his fellow officers began to despise him even then.

I can only hope that in the upcoming debates that someone asks Kerry about all this. I am afraid, though, we will hear nothing as the moderators appear to be uniformly among those "elite" media who are doing everything they can to suppress this story.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ned
Pekka, You also do not seem to understand that Kerry received his medals based on false reports he himself filed.

What proof do you have that Kerry filed the reports?

Thurlow was the office in command during the action so he would have had to sign off on any after-action report. You remember Thurlow, the guy who 35 years later claims there were no shots fired, yet the documents say otherwise.

The most plausible explanation is that Thurlow is mistaken about what happened. People usually have hazy memories about things that happened decades ago. Thurlow can't even remember what the citation for his medal said. Add in selective memory and the result is a suspect story.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Nixon hated Kerry, was going ****in' apesh*t over Kerry, and ordered the Navy to investigate him and turn up any dirt they could.

They failed to do so.

Yup, that's the biggest flaw in the "Kerry medal fraud" conspiracy theory.

If Kerry had tricked the military establishment into giving him a medal then it would have been exposed back then.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Tingkai


What proof do you have that Kerry filed the reports?

Thurlow was the office in command during the action so he would have had to sign off on any after-action report. You remember Thurlow, the guy who 35 years later claims there were no shots fired, yet the documents say otherwise.

The most plausible explanation is that Thurlow is mistaken about what happened. People usually have hazy memories about things that happened decades ago. Thurlow can't even remember what the citation for his medal said. Add in selective memory and the result is a suspect story.

There were five boat commanding officers there, including Kerry. Four of the five, everyone but Kerry, say there was no enemy fire and further say that Kerry filed the report saying there was enemy fire.

Also, only Kerry initially fled the scene to later return. Fleeing the enemy was apparently a common practice of Kerry.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Yup, that's the biggest flaw in the "Kerry medal fraud" conspiracy theory.

If Kerry had tricked the military establishment into giving him a medal then it would have been exposed back then.

Good point.

But you have to admit that Kerry running for president and touting his war record have given a lot of people incentive to conduct a more "thorough" review.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MikeH
Both your presidential candidates are complete losers, I'd call it a day and change countries if I was American.

Problem with that is that whoever gets left behind is left in possession of THE BUTTON.

Oh God, we're doomed!

[Tingkai]

I wouldn't admit any such thing because it is wrong.

When Kerry spoke out against the war he was seen by pro-war side as being a traitor (while the anti-war side saw him as a patriot). Just read what people like Thurlow are saying and you get a sense of how much the pro-war side hated him back then.

The military establishment was gunning for him. Dirty tricks Nixon and the rest of the Republicans wanted him taken down.

They did thorough and complete reviews of his record. They dug down into the muck and they couldn't get anything on him.

I would say that Kerry's decision to run for president has given Republicans an incentive to spread as much muck as possible.

The irony is that the Republican tactics hurt them more than the Democrats. Everytime the Republicans attack Kerry's record, they remind people that he served in Vietnam and Bush did not.

The Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot.

[notyoueither]

Maybe not. Someone or other was running at Bush long ago based on his 'record' in the 60's (maybe early 70's). They got a lot of free mud out of that. The damage to Bush has already been done to any who will listen. What remains to be seen is how damaging this tempest will be to Kerry.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
All we want is a thorough discussion of Kerry's war record, which he introduced as a reason to vote for him. Why shouldn't this be investigated?

As Oliphant of The Boston Globe pointed out tonight on The News Hour with Tom Leher, his war record has been investigated for thirty years, and these claims, while not going away, have failed for thrity years to be verified.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
But you have to admit that Kerry running for president and touting his war record have given a lot of people incentive to conduct a more "thorough" review.

Don't you think that the office of the President and the Secreatary of the Navy had far more resources available to them on this in the early 70s, when Kerry was initially making his claims. If there was any truth to these rumors, don't you think Nixon would have exposed him? Why did all these guys wait until 2004, to say that Kerry made all this stuff up instead of doing it in 1971, when Nixon was investigating him?

There's a lot of smoke, but only cuz someone threw a stink bomb.

[notyoueither]

Who was invesitgating Kerry's war record? Was he significant enough that enough people would be turning over the right rocks?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Who was invesitgating Kerry's war record? Was he significant enough that enough people would be turning over the right rocks?

Well, if you'd read my earlier post you'd know that the people investigating Kerry were: the President of the United States (Nixon) and the Secretary of the Navy (Warner). I don't know about you, but if I think that the POSTUS and the SotN had enough clout that people would be turning over the right rocks. This was a year before Watergate, and well before that scandal crippled his effectiveness as POTUS. If there were anything to find, Nixon would have found it.

[notyoueither]

The reason I don't really believe Kerry, and can fully believe that he is a scum bag just like the next guy...

Real vets of real **** who really feel bad about what happened and who feel really bad about what they did don't turn their experiences into a campaign for higher office. They hang their heads, and if they ever say anything they say it quietly, and that's if they never did anything wrong.

His 'I'm Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty' was among the most pathetic things I've ever seen, and I've watched American and Canadian politics for a bit so I have a sense of pathetic when I see it.

This guy is a douch bag, plain and simple. The only reason he has even a glimmer of a hope in this race is that the other guy has been showing himself to be a greater evil, probably. I'm not sure if the evil that is unknown is going to be better or worse than the evil that is known. I really hope Congress goes the other way so that the US has an actual opposition to the winner of this slime fest.

A lot's at stake, for more than just Americans, so I hope it turns out alright, but God-damned you people really haveta shoot some jolt into your party system.... please?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Well, if you'd read my earlier post you'd know that the people investigating Kerry were: the President of the United States (Nixon) and the Secretary of the Navy (Warner). I don't know about you, but if I think that the POSTUS and the SotN had enough clout that people would be turning over the right rocks. This was a year before Watergate, and well before that scandal crippled his effectiveness as POTUS. If there were anything to find, Nixon would have found it.

And your asking V vets to 'trust' the nice guys from the government...

Didn't you say something about that just a little while ago?

[Tingkai]

** first message deleted ** Thought Ned had posted something so I was responding to him. Didn't realise it was the troll who ain't worth feeding.