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Baghdad Al-Jazeera Office Ordered Closed

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ramo


    Abusing prisoners, for instance, as I mentioned earlier. Less recently (a decade or so ago), there's the murdering of school children in Baghdad.
    I see you believe the rumors too. Like the rumor of him shooting those 6 prisoners last month.

    2. We wanted Allawi. And we pressured Brahimi into going along with it.
    Brahimi didn't go along with anything. That is pure speculation on your part.

    3. He was one of the least popular members of the IGC.
    You have conducted an opinion poll to confirm this?


    Well, we'll see what happens.
    Yes we will. Unforunatley for you anarchronist, I am correct 100% of the time.
    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

    Comment

    • #32
      I see you believe the rumors too.


      The prisoner abuse isn't rumor, it's fact. Our troops conducted the raid. In fact, I know that you've seen the story (at least) twice.

      Brahimi didn't go along with anything. That is pure speculation on your part.


      Not according to the UN.
      "Brahimi had been frustrated for some weeks, feeling he had been sidelined by the United States in the process of setting up the Iraqi interim government."

      "Many understood that Brahimi's role was also to assist in making the major appointments in the new government. But the Americans and the Governing Council members close to them were not about to clear the way for the UN envoy.

      Iraqi officials were later surprised at the massive pressure the Americans laid on Brahimi, and at his passive attitude toward the pressure. When the new appointments were announced, Brahimi's spokesman expressed concern. "This is not the way we imagined things," he said."

      The Haartz article I originally found is down, but I found the Apolyton thread I posted story in.
      Apolyton Civilization Site
      http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116783&highlight=brahimi


      You have conducted an opinion poll to confirm this?


      No, but the CPA did. He had abysmal popularity levels.


      http://wid.ap.org/documents/iraq/cpapoll_files/v3_document.htm
      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
      -Bokonon

      Comment

      • #33
        No, I'm holding the Iraq state to basic humanitarian standards.


        Then I imagine you are next going after France, Germany, etc., with anti-Neo Nazi laws... because of basic humanitarian standards, of course.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment

        • #34
          And when have I supported those laws?
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

          Comment

          • #35
            Well I find it interesting that you consider countries like France and Germany to not acceed to basic humanitarian standards.

            I don't back those laws but even I don't speak such hyperbole.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

            Comment

            • #36
              France and Germany haven't shut out any major news organizations from the country any time recently. That's the real problem.
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by Ramo
                I see you believe the rumors too.


                The prisoner abuse isn't rumor, it's fact. Our troops conducted the raid. In fact, I know that you've seen the story (at least) twice.
                Show me a third time.


                Not according to the UN.
                "Brahimi had been frustrated for some weeks, feeling he had been sidelined by the United States in the process of setting up the Iraqi interim government."

                blah blah..."This is not the way we imagined things," he said."
                That's nice. But he didn't "go along with it." The US sidelined him, on certain appointments, and this I have never disuputed. But Brahimi never fully endorsed them.

                No, but the CPA did. He had abysmal popularity levels.
                That's a pretty picture. (I can barley even read it). There doesn't seem to be much parity among the people listed, except for Sistani (no brainer) who clearly is popular. But calling it "abysmal" is a nice exaggeration on your part.
                We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ramo
                  France and Germany haven't shut out any major news organizations from the country any time recently. That's the real problem.
                  Cept for Muslim school girls can't wear their head scarves.
                  We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    France and Germany haven't shut out any major news organizations from the country any time recently. That's the real problem.


                    Canada has 'shut out' FoxNews. I'd love to see your protest against Canada.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      In any case, the people in charge are saying:

                      "They have been showing a lot of crime and criminals on TV. They transferred a bad picture about Iraq and about Iraqis. They have encouraged the criminals and the gangsters to increase their activities in the country," al-Naqib said.

                      In a statement, the Interior Ministry added: "Al-Jazeera has accepted to be the mouthpiece of terrorist and criminal groups thus contributing to attempts to impair security and achieve aims of terrorism in spreading terror in the minds of peaceful Iraqi citizens with activities that have nothing to do with acts of violence.

                      "In so doing, it has contributed to hindering the Iraq reconstruction process by justifying kidnappings and killing of foreigners working here.

                      "It has also subjected the security, safety and property of citizens as well as government facilities, security and safety of national armed forces to danger."
                      502 Bad Gateway
                      http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/07/iraq.al.jazeera/index.html
                      We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Show me a third time.


                        No, you'll just ignore it a third time. If you honestly can't remember it, it's a Guardian article. When I posted it the second time, you mentioned that you saw it already.

                        That's nice. But he didn't "go along with it." The US sidelined him, on certain appointments, and this I have never disuputed. But Brahimi never fully endorsed them.


                        "Iraqi officials were later surprised at the massive pressure the Americans laid on Brahimi, and at his passive attitude toward the pressure."

                        That was my original claim. Proven. QED.

                        That's a pretty picture. (I can barley even read it). There doesn't seem to be much parity among the people listed, except for Sistani (no brainer) who clearly is popular. But calling it "abysmal" is a nice exaggeration on your part.


                        Allawi has 21% supported (only 3% strongly), and 61% opposed (a whopping 40% of it strongly). Those numbers aren't abysmal? And only two politicians in the poll have worse numbers (and both happen to be Kurds), most of them better, much better. Like the whole right side of the poll. Calling it something other than abysmal is inanity on your part.

                        As for the bad resolution, blame the CPA.
                        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                        -Bokonon

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Hey, here is a nice blog from an Iraqi dentist, and his comments on Al Jazeera reporting:

                          Speaking of Fallujah, we have only Al-Jazeera to rely on for our news from there. They have sent over their top reporter Ahmed Mansour to the town, and he is spouting all kinds of propaganda hourly reminding me of Al-Sahhaf. "They are targetting ambulances", "American snipers are shooting children and pregnant women", and "They are using cluster bombs against civilians" is all you get to hear from him. He did once make an unforgivable error when he mentioned that Fallujan militants were shooting at the Marines from the roofs of mosques and houses in Hay Al-Golan, but of course that is okay for Al-Jazeera. Someone who called himself Abu Hafs from the Ibn Al-Khattab Brigades (another new group) was on Al-Jazeera describing the enormous casualties among the Marines and he sweared that American soldiers were mutilating the bodies of dead insurgents. Over 300 Iraqis are reported dead and 500 wounded in Fallujah alone. Al-Iraqiyah tv said that ICDC were controlling Ramadi.
                          Sign in - Google Accounts
                          http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2004_04_01_healingiraq_archive.html


                          That's a great, valuable, independent news source!

                          PWN3ED
                          We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Cept for Muslim school girls can't wear their head scarves.


                            Which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

                            Incidentally, I disagree with that as well.

                            Canada has 'shut out' FoxNews. I'd love to see your protest against Canada.


                            Canada closed down all Fox News offices in the country? Since when?
                            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                            -Bokonon

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              That's a great, valuable, independent news source!


                              And there aren't any crappy reporters in the Fox News organization.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Canada closed down all Fox News offices in the country? Since when?


                                Canada will not allow FoxNews is brodcast in the country. So the difference for you is if they can have 'offices' in the country? So if Al Jezeera could have offices but couldn't broadcast that would be ok with you? It wouldn't be a 'humanitarian standards' violation?

                                Btw, why the seperate rules for 'major' news outlets? France and Germany don't violate your 'humanitarian standards' because they only shut down 'minor' news outlets, whatever that means?
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                                Comment

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