The Dead Horse Rides again: Cap/Com Debate

[Velociryx]

how pretty it looks on paper, Kid, has NOTHING to do with real world implementation, as you should be painfully aware of by now (read some history if you need a refresher).

True or untrue that you call for a global implementation?

(simple question here)

True or untrue that global implementation...well...encompasses the whole of the earth?

I know, those are pretty tricky, but...try...'k?

But it don't much matter. As I've mentioned before, global implementation requires all the Reds to be on the same page as far as WHAT is to be implemented, and since right now, you guys can't even decide WHAT you want, we're in no danger.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
True or untrue that you call for a global implementation?

True, but calling for one and actually implementing one are two different things. I'm not planning to implement communism. I'm just one man calling for it.

Originally posted by Velociryx
implementation...well...encompasses the whole of the earth?

Absolutely, communism won't work until it does encompass the earth. Communism is about peace as much as anything els. Peace is the prized possesion that we seek.

[David Floyd]

This is a meaningless post, I just wanted to draw attention to my signature, which features a Kidicious quote, with contextual commentary

[Velociryx]

pretty easily accomplished once you crush the life out of anybody who dares think anything other than officially sanctioned party dogma.

Oh, and keep tight controls over the flow of information in order to ensure that party dogma is the only stuff that makes the rounds.

and eliminate any and all radical elements (you know, people who like to think for themselves once in a while).

Yep...do those things, and keep doing them (gotta keep that guard up, cos radical elements can crop up at any time), and it should be paradise in the bread line!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

DF!

Hope you're feeling better, man!

And Kid, you're not making any sense.

If you're not planning to implement Commie-Land globally, AND you say that it won't work unless you do....what exactly ARE you saying?

LOL

-=Vel=-

[David Floyd]

I think he's saying that he wishes "someone" would, but he's not gonna be the one to do it, and since he's not gonna be that person, he doesn't have to have a rational plan for implementation.

[monolith94]

Living in a highly centralized, socialized society has nothing to do with not having to think, etc. Indeed, a truly socialist society FREES a person, allowing them to pursue the profession, to pursue whatever allows them to do the most good in the world, by removing the shackles of fiscal burden.

Although it can be argued that fiscal burden has a positive effect on an artist's output, but that's a rather cynical viewpoint.

And the Russians didn't raise slackers and lazy workers. In actuality, I've found from my reading in last semester's Revolutionary Russia class that the average worker worked really hard. What they crushed was political ambition, political independence. A nation of political sycophants. But lazy? No.

Velocyrix - all of this stuff about crushing thoughts outside the party line... That's Stalinist, even Leninist communism. Admittedly, the sort of Communism that doesn't work - at all. What offers a better solution is an intellectually liberated socialist state.

[Velociryx]

Yeah, I got that part....what *I'm* saying is...you know, from a planning perspective, those are pretty important questions to have answers for before the starting gun goes off.

-=Vel=-

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Velociryx
how pretty it looks on paper, Kid, has NOTHING to do with real world implementation, as you should be painfully aware of by now (read some history if you need a refresher).

And that is a perfect summation of where the pro Communist argument always fails.

Well done Vel.

[Velociryx]

Monolith - again, I'm not disagreeing with you.

It's plain to see that the Russian implementation of communism didn't get the job done.

And it wasn't because the workers were lazy....it was because the system was rotten to the core. What productivity there was was pissed away by self-serving party bosses, but even that was only part of the problem (it's a matter of all the hard work in the world not making up for smart, efficient work, which was almost entirely lacking).

Nonetheless, the proposed system is so radically different from what we've got in the here and now, that force will be the only viable means to implement the initial change.

That means crushing dissent, because the two systems are in no way compatible.

And if you start off on that footing, you'll wind up with the same result that the russians did.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Thank ya, Master Striker!

-=Vel=-

[monolith94]

Obviously, global implementation is utterly ludicrous. We're all just talking theory here. Communism is for all intents and purposes dead. The last fibres of leftist socialist ideology seem to be hanging on in Scandinavia. Thankfully, a peaceful enough region where they may develop.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Velociryx
What is not needed is a monolithic, highly centralized power to tell you when to stand, when to sit, what to think, and when to $hit.

Who's arguing for one? Do you like setting up strawmen? Is it fun?

[Velociryx]

Okay....but IF it's just idle theory, then why bother with membership drives?

Why talk at all about the coming of the revolution?

And if global implementation is ludicrous, but that's the only way it can be made workable...then isn't that tantamount to creating another in a series of failures IF said revolution occurs at all??

-=Vel=-

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Ummm...actually it is about ruling the world.

So sayeth every Red who bemoans the previous failures of the red pony by saying that it can't work until and unless it's implemented on a global scale.

What does that suggest to you?

-=Vel=-

If it were merely about ruling the world, most of us commies are actually really freakin' intelligent people, and we understand the system a lot better than you. If it were merely about ruling the world, we'd rule it as capitalists.