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  • Originally posted by Kidicious


    I only saw the introduction where he talked about his origin. Is he liberal or moderate. A black democrat running for president would have to be moderate to the point of boardering on conservative to have any chance. Still, I don't think he would win.
    I haven't been researching in detail, but he certainly sounds quite moderate.

    This part of his speech sure doesn't sound like an extremist liberal!

    Now, don't get me wrong, the people I meet in small towns and big cities and diners and office parks, they don't expect government to solves all of their problems. They know they have to work hard to get a head. And they want to.

    Go into the collar counties around Chicago, and people will tell you: They don't want their tax money wasted by a welfare agency or by the Pentagon.

    Go into any inner-city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can't teach kids to learn.

    OBAMA: They know that parents have to teach, that children can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white. They know those things.

    People don't expect -- people don't expect government to solve all their problems.


    The conservative commentators I heard actually compared him to a Ronald Regan in the way it reached out to moderates and swing voters. Bob Dole by the way gave the speech an "A".

    Comment


    • I can definitely see Obama winning the Democratic nomination someday, and possibly even winning if there is a weak Republican incumbent, but I suspect his appeal to moderates might be limited.

      It wouldn't be for a while though, anyway. After 2004 there will be too many heavyweights out there such as Hillary/Edwards/Dean/Gore all wanting to tale a shot at the Presidency.
      "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

      "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

      Comment


      • CNN? That hurts.


        Sorry, that was rough .

        Weren't you the one that totally underestimated Dean Imran? I wouldn't bring him up if I were you.


        I should have kept to my low opinion of him. I was suckered in by the press during the winter and thought I had underestimated the man. Turns out I was right all along. He was the 'reformer' who gets good press in the fall, but dies in the spring.

        If anything, I was right on the money about Dean.

        The first black pres will be a Republican.


        Yep, I definetly agree.

        Kid, you should see the entire thing. And then we can talk about what Obama can or can't do.


        A speech ain't going tell you what he can or can't do. By that measure Mario Cuomo (the first 'two Americas' speech back in 1984) should be President by now (his speech has been included in numerous collections of greatest American speeches, including Torricelli's great book).
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment


        • Cuomo ran away from the nomination when it was his turn in '92 (since Bush looked unbeatable at the time). If he decided to run, he probably would've beaten Clinton and then Bush. In '84, Cuomo was a decade older than Obama is now, so he didn't have any opportunities after '92.

          Obama's a young guy, he has plenty of chances to make his bid.

          And from what I've heard, this speech was not a lucky fluke.
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

          Comment


          • I liked the Indian chick that spoke, she brought things into a TOTALLY different perspective.

            What was her name?
            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

            Comment


            • A speech ain't going tell you what he can or can't do. By that measure Mario Cuomo (the first 'two Americas' speech back in 1984) should be President by now (his speech has been included in numerous collections of greatest American speeches, including Torricelli's great book).
              According to CNN, Obama's speech was the best convention speech in 30 years, including Cuomos 1984 speech.

              Obama, a Senate candidate from Illinois, gave the best Democratic keynote speech in the last 30 years -- better even than Mario Cuomo's in 1984, Ann Richards' in 1988 or Barbara Jordan's in 1976.

              Comment


              • Theresa Heinz Kerry tells journalist to 'shove it'.

                'We need to turn back some of the creeping un-Pennsylvanian and sometimes un-American traits that are coming into some of our politics,' she said Sunday at the Democratic party convention in Boston.

                The rightwing media refused to discuss the issue at hand, but latched on to a confrontation (video) mrs. Heinz Kerry had with a journalists from Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. This newspaper is published by Richard Mellon Scaife. For those who don't know Mellon Scaife he is THE major funder of rightwing causes in America. So far he has handed over $1.4 billion in current dollars to the Republicans. When confronted with the question on her use of the word 'unamerican activities' Kerry Heinz told the journalist to 'shove it'. Note that Kerry Heinz said 'unamerican traits', not 'activities'. The media were aghast. How could she treat one of their respected members with such disdain?

                Of course when we compare how Mellon Scaife and Bush have treated journalists it pales in comparison. For instance when Mellon Scaife was interviewed by Karen Rothmeyer of the Columbia Journalism Review about his funding activities, he yelled at her, "You ****ing communist ****, get out of here." he also said she was ugly, and that her mother, although not present, was ugly too.

                A well know gaffe happened when Bush was on the campaign trail in 2000. Just about to commence aa campaign speech in Illinois he stated. "There's Adam Clymer, major league ******* from the New York Times." The statement was made to Dick Cheney, and was not meant to be heard by a wider audience, had it not been for the live microphones.

                So it is ok for men to belittle journalists in the most degrading terms, but not for a women to dismiss someone in a callous manner?
                Last edited by Tripledoc; July 28, 2004, 07:29.

                Comment


                • I believe the point as 'old fashioned as it may be' is that this is uncharacteristic behavior for a (potential or otherwise) first lady. Regardless it is of little real import.

                  The bigger issue at hand would be a disclosure of Teresa's tax records. While it is rather gray that she is not the one running for public office and as a consequence has no legal reason to divulge those records. The point is both she and John are benefitting from her wealth and activities. I don't know (but could be mistaken) of any presidential candidate who didn't disclose returns including attachments of both themselves and their spouse.

                  And finally in answer to your question, the answer is obviously no.
                  "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                  “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                  Comment


                  • Cuomo ran away from the nomination when it was his turn in '92 (since Bush looked unbeatable at the time). If he decided to run, he probably would've beaten Clinton and then Bush.


                    What a BAM! I can counter with my own BAM then! Cuomo would have been painted as a traditional liberal and would have been trounced to the extent Mondale was.

                    According to CNN


                    Carlos Watson, YOU are CNN
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • I wish I had seen Obama's speech but alas, I missed it.
                      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                      Comment


                      • I havent watched any but a few very very short snippets including 10 secs of Obama. After seeing the exerpts here I read his speech. If you ignore all the (understandable) pro-Kerry rubbish it's quite interesting. On one hand he appears moderate but then mentions Kerry in the same light. Something doesnt fit there. Either he supports Kerry, which means he's not really a moderate, or he is a moderate and just giving Kerry his due. In any case it does appear to be an excellent speech (I think it's better written than his presentation - which didnt grab me) and he's definitely someone to be watched for the future. Maybe I'll vote dem some time.

                        ****, I just got a John Kerry for president popup asking me to donate $50. Sickening!
                        We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                        If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                        Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kidicious
                          There is no way the Dems will run a black man. Hell, they won't even run a liberal.
                          A black man might win. A liberal won't. Why would you go out of your way to deliberately pick a loser, unless you're a communist?
                          When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SpencerH
                            I havent watched any but a few very very short snippets including 10 secs of Obama. After seeing the exerpts here I read his speech. If you ignore all the (understandable) pro-Kerry rubbish it's quite interesting. On one hand he appears moderate but then mentions Kerry in the same light. Something doesnt fit there. Either he supports Kerry, which means he's not really a moderate, or he is a moderate and just giving Kerry his due. In any case it does appear to be an excellent speech (I think it's better written than his presentation - which didnt grab me) and he's definitely someone to be watched for the future. Maybe I'll vote dem some time.

                            ****, I just got a John Kerry for president popup asking me to donate $50. Sickening!
                            Hell, I'm pro-Kerry.



























                            even if he is a #$%*& yankee liberal
                            When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                            Comment


                            • Oh, and besides, Obama has to step aside for the 2000 Dem Convention wunderkind, Harold Ford, Jr. .
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


                                A black man might win. A liberal won't. Why would you go out of your way to deliberately pick a loser, unless you're a communist?
                                And black men always win I guess?
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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