Islam is a peaceful religion is it..

[Q Classic]

Possibly. But I bet they use Islam to justify **** like that. Are these things common among Christian Arabs as well?

people use religion all the time to justify their hatred and murder.

hell, they don't just use religion. if they can find anything to justify it, they will. god just happens to be very convenient, because how are you going to argue against a divine command?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Everyday run-of-the-mill Christians wouldn't force their kids to marry someone

they did until the modern era.

Hence the labelling of Islam as "backwards"

or wear burkas or disown (or sometimes kill) their daughters if they have premarital sex.

this, i think has less to do with islam and more to do with arab culture.

Forced marriages had less to do with Christianity and more to do with European culture (or politics)

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by molly bloom


The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.

Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992

N.O.W. (the American National Organisation of Women)
is saying that in order to be a woman, you've got to be a lesbian.

Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 3, 1997

(none of theNational Organisation for Women's public statements have this in their text)

[Planned Parenthood]... is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism -- everything that the Bible condemns.

Pat Robertson The 700 Club television program, April 9, 1991

I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either.

Pat Robertson

The 700 Club television program, May 28, 1993


God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family... "Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them."

Pat Robertson, reciting a passage from I Timothy in his book, Bring It On, quoted from Nicholas D. Kristof, "Peter, Paul, Mary ... and God" (The New York Times: February 28, 2004)

I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period.

Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 8, 1992


Pat Robertson you will be stunned to learn, is a modern day Christian.

Roger de Caen, French monk (not a modern day one, but it is good to see the antecedents of Robertson's line of thought) :

'If her bowels and flesh were cut open you would see what filth is covered by her white skin. If a fine crimson cloth covered a pile of foul dung, would anyone be foolish enough to love the dung because of it? There is no plague which monks should dread worse than woman: the soul's death.'

St. John Chrysostom:

'The woman taught once and ruined all. On that account...let her not teach.'

The Christian Bible:

'Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.'

I Timothy, 2:12


'Woman is naturally carnal and sensuous...the irrational half of MANkind.'

Methodius, who had clearly never been to a football match or to a Hooter's Bar with Pekka.


'Woman is the devil's gateway...a scorpion's dart.'

'Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.'

St. Jerome

'Woman pollutes the body,drains the resources, kills the soul, uproots the strength, blinds the eye, and embitters the voice.'

Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher, who didn't seem to be allowing much time for woman to get any housework done.

And let's include the male Jews of the early Russian Pale of Settlement, one of whose prayers went:

'Lord I thank thee that thou has not made me a woman.'*

But let's leave the last word with Tertullian, that staunch emancipator of women:

'Let women remember that they are of the sex of Eve, who ruined mankind; and let them therefore repair this ignominy by living rather in dust than in splendour.'

Perhaps the dust is a reference to the housework that isn't getting done while the women are doing all the things Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher says they spend their time doing, or being.

*Ebenezer Henderson, 'Biblical Researches and Travels in Russia', publ. 1826

Yeah, that Islam sho'nuff be mediaeval.

These people are all exceptions. At least today they are. In Islam (or rather, practice of,) today however the rule seems to be that women are inferior.

[Q Classic]

Forced marriages had less to do with Christianity and more to do with European culture (or politics)

i'm not disagreeing. forced marriages had less to do with any religion and more to do with politics, economics, and the cultural mores.

after all, they were common in arab-dominated areas, east asia, south asia, the americas, oceania, and europe.

[Dis]

I support forced marriages. how else woud a woman actually marry me?

[Ramo]

These people are all exceptions. At least today they are. In Islam (or rather, practice of,) today however the rule seems to be that women are inferior.

As I've pointed out in countless other threads like this, would that be why the three largest Muslim countries (Indonesia, Pakistan, and Bangladesh) have had women heads of state, while the three largest Christian countries (the US, Brazil, and Mexico) have not?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Gangerolf




These people are all exceptions. At least today they are. In Islam (or rather, practice of,) today however the rule seems to be that women are inferior.

You mean in Pakistan where Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister and in Bangla Desh where the two main political parties are headed by women?

'Bangladesh's Prime Minister, Sheikh Hasina is nearing the completion of her five year term in the office. And the prime minister who preceded her, was also a woman, Ms. Khaleda Zia. She is now the leader of the opposition in the parliament. She replaced Sheikh Hasina in the same position.'

http://alochona.org/magazine/2001/october/views.htm

Both Muslim countries.


World's most populous Muslim country- Indonesia. Head of state- Megawati Sukarnoputri, that well-known female impersonator.

'Megawati Sukarnoputri (1947- ), president of Indonesia (2001- ) and leader of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P), who as vice president (1999-2001) replaced deposed president Abdurrahman Wahid.

Born in Yogyakarta, Megawati is the second child and eldest daughter of Indonesia’s founding president, Sukarno. '

http://www.famousmuslims.com/Megawati%20Sukarnoputri.htm

In many cases what you're referring to is the pre-existing culture that was there before Islam.

Which is not to say that aspects of Islam do not strike me as irrational and mediaeval, but then I could say the same about any faith whose adherents kill other people for something I don't believe exists.

In many Christian countries, a woman did not have the legal right to exercise control over herself, or own property separately from her husband and in her own name, until the latter half of the nineteenth century.
She had previously been considered either her parents' 'property' or in law, the chattel of her husband if she married- and the word chattel, which means a moveable possession or slave, comes from the same root as cattle.

chat·tel ( P ) Pronunciation Key (chtl)

n.
Law. An article of movable personal property.
A slave.


[Middle English chatel, movable property, from Old French, from Medieval Latin capitle. See cattle.]

That's a long time waiting for emancipation from the founding days of Christianity, don't you think?

[Ramo]

Beat you by a couple seconds.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ramo
Beat you by a couple seconds.

Yeah, but I posted the links and the quotes.



Research will slow you down.

(haughtily sniffs at Ramo's bare reply)

[mrmitchell]

mrmitchell , it doesn't what? Seem backwards or scare people?

I meant scare people, but it's not as backwards as it's made out either...I actually own a goddamn copy of the Koran, something PA probably can't attest to, and I try to read a little of all these things.

For being written in ~600AD, it was probably "ahead of the times".

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Gangerolf




These people are all exceptions. At least today they are. In Islam (or rather, practice of,) today however the rule seems to be that women are inferior.

If only.


St Jerome:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08341a.htm

Tertullian:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm

St Paul: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11567b.htm

Thomas Aquinas:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm

all key figures in early and mediaeval Christianity.

All with, ah, 'issues', about women.

Pat Robertson is a national religious and political figure in the United States. Doesn't mean he's credible, but he has a national profile and a network of followers and fellow believers.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Who wants to have sex with virgins anyhow? They are useless in the fine art of luuuuuvemaking.

I agree. I was once a virgin, and I did my duty by having sex with a virgin once. I never looked to repeat that experience again.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Dissident
It's a crap religion. There I said it. Not that christianity is any better.

But I'm tired of being forced to "accept" Islam. They treat their women like dirt. Therefore there religion is crap.

I agree with you, though I prefer the term "gutter religion".

[Gangerolf]

I know about the female heads of state. I guess it means the elites are more enlightened than the lower classes perhaps.

I'm not sure what you guys are trying to convince us of or justify though.

Islam is not women-friendly and you know it. And if that is because of pre-existing culture, well it doesn't make it any more OK.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Sikander


I agree with you, though I prefer the term "gutter religion".

actually I disagree with myself.

my problem isn't with the religion- though I have my doubts about a religion created from warfare. It has to deal with the middle eastern culture in general.