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  • #61
    Originally posted by Ramo


    I was reading an interesting article a while back. It was saying that in Rwanda's Muslims doubled in the past decade (to something like 15% of the population). The reason seems to be that a lot of the RCC in Rwanda was complicit in the genocide, while Muslim leaders did a lot to protect the Tutsis.
    Snap.


    "Though Muslims remain a small percentage of Rwanda's 8 million people, Islam is on the rise eight years after
    the 1994 genocide brought 100 days of murder, terror
    and mayhem. More than 500,000 minority Tutsis and
    political moderates from the Hutu majority were killed
    by Hutu militiamen, soldiers and ordinary citizens in
    a slaughter orchestrated by the extremist Hutu
    government then in power.

    "For Hutus, conversion to Islam was like purification,
    a way of getting rid of a stigma," Habimana said.
    "After the genocide, Hutus felt that the society
    perceives them as having blood on their hands."

    Arab merchants trading in ivory and slaves introduced
    Islam to Rwanda in the 18th century. The faith grew
    after 1908 when waves of Muslims flowed in from
    Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda and Sudan at the beginning of
    European colonial rule.

    For nearly a century, Muslims remained on the fringes
    of Rwandan society. The faithful in Kigali were
    restricted to Biryogo, a dusty neighborhood where the
    Al-Fatah mosque now stands. They needed permits to
    leave.

    During the genocide, Muslims were among the few
    Rwandans who protected both neighbors and strangers.
    Elsewhere, many Hutus hunted down or betrayed their
    Tutsi neighbors and strangers suspected of belonging
    to the minority."

    Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo!


    and:

    'RUHENGERI, Rwanda -- The villagers with their forest
    green head wraps and forest green Korans arrived at
    the mosque on a rainy Sunday afternoon for a lecture
    for new converts. There was one main topic: jihad.

    They found their seats and flipped to the right page.
    Hands flew in the air. People read passages aloud. And
    the word jihad -- holy struggle -- echoed again and
    again through the dark, leaky room.

    It wasn't the kind of jihad that has been in the news
    since Sept. 11, 2001. There were no references to
    Osama bin Laden, the World Trade Center or suicide
    bombers. Instead there was only talk of April 6, 1994,
    the first day of the state-sponsored genocide in which
    ethnic Hutu extremists killed 800,000 minority Tutsis
    and Hutu moderates.

    "We have our own jihad, and that is our war against
    ignorance between Hutu and Tutsi. It is our struggle
    to heal," said Saleh Habimana, the head mufti of
    Rwanda. "Our jihad is to start respecting each other
    and living as Rwandans and as Muslims."

    Since the genocide, Rwandans have converted to Islam
    in huge numbers. Muslims now make up 14 percent of the
    8.2 million people here in Africa's most Catholic
    nation, twice as many as before the killings began.

    Many converts say they chose Islam because of the role
    that some Catholic and Protestant leaders played in
    the genocide. Human rights groups have documented
    several incidents in which Christian clerics allowed
    Tutsis to seek refuge in churches, then surrendered
    them to Hutu death squads, as well as instances of
    Hutu priests and ministers encouraging their
    congregations to kill Tutsis. Today some churches
    serve as memorials to the many people slaughtered
    among their pews.

    Four clergymen are facing genocide charges at the
    U.N.-created International Criminal Tribunal for
    Rwanda, and last year in Belgium, the former colonial
    power, two Rwandan nuns were convicted of murder for
    their roles in the massacre of 7,000 Tutsis who sought
    protection at a Benedictine convent.'

    Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

    ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Tripledoc
      Americas Third World War

      How 6 million People Were killed in CIA secret wars against third world countries.

      http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle4068.htm
      I hate to break this to you, but americans aren't christians.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Dissident
        I hate to break this to you, but americans aren't christians.
        Uh hu?!?

        Care to elaborate?

        Comment


        • #64
          Americans are Americans.

          Some, but not all, Americans are Christians.

          Ergo, American != Christian.

          I'm pretty sure that's the chain of Dissident's thoughts.

          Comment


          • #65
            americans aren't entirely christian. religious republican nonsense aside, this nation is secular, not christian.

            the fact that all save one of the presidents has been white and protestant notwithstanding.
            B♭3

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Dissident


              I hate to break this to you, but americans aren't christians.
              Not yet.

              Book your seat on the Bush Bus to Zion:

              God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.

              George W. Bush, according to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, from minutes acquired by Ha'aretz from cease-fire negotiations between Abbas and faction leaders from the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular and Democratic Fronts (circa June, 2003), quoted from:

              Arnon Regular, ' "Road map is a life saver for us", PM Abbas tells Hamas' (Haaretz.com:June 27, 2003),
              quoted from EvilOz (The Iterative Record)

              and:

              "The very first act of the new Bush administration was to have a Protestant Evangelist minister officially dedicate the inauguration to Jesus Christ, whom he declared to be 'our savior.' Invoking 'the Father, the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ' and 'the Holy Spirit,' Billy Graham's son, the man selected by President George W. Bush to bless his presidency, excluded the tens of millions of Americans who are Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists, Unitarians, agnostics, and atheists from his blessing by his particularistic and parochial language.

              "The plain message conveyed by the new administration is that George W. Bush's America is a Christian nation and that non-Christians are welcome into the tent so long as they agree to accept their status as a tolerated minority rather than as fully equal citizens. In effect, Bush is saying: 'This is our home, and in our home we pray to Jesus as our savior. If you want to be a guest in our home, you must accept the way we pray.' "

              Alan M. Dershowitz, in "Bush Starts Off by Defying the the Constitution," Los Angeles Times, January 24, 2001

              Thanks again to Positive atheism, keeping a watchful eye on the merger of church and state.
              Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

              ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

              Comment


              • #67
                When God was handing out religions, the Muslims must have been last in the queue.

                Sure, Christians kill. Jews kill. Even Buddhists kill. The greatest evil about Islam IMO is its concept of family honour etc and how women are treated. It's medievil (I misspelled that on purpose. Clever, eh?).
                Everyday run-of-the-mill Christians wouldn't force their kids to marry someone or wear burkas or disown (or sometimes kill) their daughters if they have premarital sex.

                (Sure, there are exceptions and so on)

                Islam seems very backwards and I don't think it's surprising that it scares or disgusts many Westerners.
                CSPA

                Comment


                • #68
                  Islam seems very backwards and I don't think it's surprising that it scares or disgusts many Westerners.
                  It doesn't. I know it doesn't. I pray for us all that it doesn't.

                  It only seems that it scares so many because the ignorant ones are always the loudest.
                  meet the new boss, same as the old boss

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Everyday run-of-the-mill Christians wouldn't force their kids to marry someone

                    they did until the modern era.

                    or wear burkas or disown (or sometimes kill) their daughters if they have premarital sex.

                    this, i think has less to do with islam and more to do with arab culture.
                    B♭3

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I can't believe this thread still isn't closed!

                      I still have enough faith in humanity to think that most muslims, like most christians, ignore such ancient bigotry in the practising of their religion.

                      Still, it's scary to think that this can legitimately be preached because it's in the holy book

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Q Cubed
                        Everyday run-of-the-mill Christians wouldn't force their kids to marry someone

                        they did until the modern era.

                        or wear burkas or disown (or sometimes kill) their daughters if they have premarital sex.

                        this, i think has less to do with islam and more to do with arab culture.
                        we cannot deny the horrors of christianity in the past. truelly disgraceful.

                        but the fact is some people have become more civilized, and others haven't.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          but the fact is some people have become more civilized, and others haven't.

                          yes, and it's important to distinguish between arab and muslim.

                          they are not the same thing, or else the world's most populous islamic country will have a fit, because it's definitely not in the middle east.
                          B♭3

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Q Cubed
                            but the fact is some people have become more civilized, and others haven't.

                            yes, and it's important to distinguish between arab and muslim.

                            they are not the same thing, or else the world's most populous islamic country will have a fit, because it's definitely not in the middle east.
                            you have a point. I will not associate arabs/middle easterners to muslims anymore as I don't like it when people call americans christians.

                            The fact is muslims inside the U.S don't kill people.

                            So I apoligize for saying muslims kill people.

                            It's a problem with middle eastern culture in general, not the religion.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              mrmitchell , it doesn't what? Seem backwards or scare people?

                              Q Cubed

                              "they did until the modern era."

                              Yes.

                              "this, i think has less to do with islam and more to do with arab culture."

                              Possibly. But I bet they use Islam to justify **** like that. Are these things common among Christian Arabs as well?
                              CSPA

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Gangerolf

                                The greatest evil about Islam IMO is its concept of family honour etc and how women are treated.

                                It's medievil

                                Everyday run-of-the-mill Christians wouldn't force their kids to marry someone or wear burkas or disown (or sometimes kill) their daughters if they have premarital sex.

                                Islam seems very backwards and I don't think it's surprising that it scares or disgusts many Westerners.
                                The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.

                                Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992

                                N.O.W. (the American National Organisation of Women)
                                is saying that in order to be a woman, you've got to be a lesbian.

                                Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 3, 1997

                                (none of theNational Organisation for Women's public statements have this in their text)

                                [Planned Parenthood]... is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism -- everything that the Bible condemns.

                                Pat Robertson The 700 Club television program, April 9, 1991

                                I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either.

                                Pat Robertson

                                The 700 Club television program, May 28, 1993


                                God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family... "Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them."

                                Pat Robertson, reciting a passage from I Timothy in his book, Bring It On, quoted from Nicholas D. Kristof, "Peter, Paul, Mary ... and God" (The New York Times: February 28, 2004)

                                I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period.

                                Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 8, 1992


                                Pat Robertson you will be stunned to learn, is a modern day Christian.

                                Roger de Caen, French monk (not a modern day one, but it is good to see the antecedents of Robertson's line of thought) :

                                'If her bowels and flesh were cut open you would see what filth is covered by her white skin. If a fine crimson cloth covered a pile of foul dung, would anyone be foolish enough to love the dung because of it? There is no plague which monks should dread worse than woman: the soul's death.'

                                St. John Chrysostom:

                                'The woman taught once and ruined all. On that account...let her not teach.'

                                The Christian Bible:

                                'Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.'

                                I Timothy, 2:12


                                'Woman is naturally carnal and sensuous...the irrational half of MANkind.'

                                Methodius, who had clearly never been to a football match or to a Hooter's Bar with Pekka.


                                'Woman is the devil's gateway...a scorpion's dart.'

                                'Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.'

                                St. Jerome

                                'Woman pollutes the body,drains the resources, kills the soul, uproots the strength, blinds the eye, and embitters the voice.'

                                Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher, who didn't seem to be allowing much time for woman to get any housework done.

                                And let's include the male Jews of the early Russian Pale of Settlement, one of whose prayers went:

                                'Lord I thank thee that thou has not made me a woman.'*

                                But let's leave the last word with Tertullian, that staunch emancipator of women:

                                'Let women remember that they are of the sex of Eve, who ruined mankind; and let them therefore repair this ignominy by living rather in dust than in splendour.'

                                Perhaps the dust is a reference to the housework that isn't getting done while the women are doing all the things Cardinal Hugues de St. Cher says they spend their time doing, or being.

                                *Ebenezer Henderson, 'Biblical Researches and Travels in Russia', publ. 1826

                                Yeah, that Islam sho'nuff be mediaeval.
                                Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                                ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

                                Comment

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