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Rational agent. Self Interest.

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  • #76
    Originally posted by GePap
    God, this claptrap again- good posts Ludd

    Most people would not know "happiness" if it came and bit them in the ass.

    Self-interest has nothing to do with "feeling happy" in the "aww, I did good, I feel warm and shinny inside" way- it has to do with your relation vs other individuals and within the system. The obvious cases of self-interested charity would include corporations giving away stuff in order to claim the tax breaks, or things like that.

    Giving money to a beggar is not a self-interested act- aftyer all, you could in theory keep that money, invest it, and make sure your kids will be rich latter in life, securing your heritage and genes. That is self-interest, NOT a temporary and wanning emotional sensation like "feeling happy about giving charity".
    I think Gepap is the one who uses the definition closer to the way Hobbes used it than anyone else.
    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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    • #77
      Instead of side stepping each other on this topic, it would be usefull to state which definition of self-interest you are using when starting a thread.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • #78
        Tell me this - would Hobbes consider buying a fancy car (as opposed to a cost-efficient one) or paying a hooker to be self-interested?

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Park Avenue
          "Get back to me when you can explain to me how deriving satisfication through completely selfless acts is self-interested."

          Show me a completely selfless act.
          I told you to avoid the "because it makes you happy" feedback loop.


          Tell me how deriving happiness from someone elses benefit is self-interested.

          And if your answer is "because it makes you happy" repeat the question again, and again, untill you come up with an answer that doesn't loop back on itself.
          Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

          Do It Ourselves

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          • #80
            Because it achieves your goals!

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            • #81
              I told you to avoid the "because it makes you happy" feedback loop.
              And I did. I first asked you to provide an example of a completely selfless act.
              www.my-piano.blogspot

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                Because it achieves your goals!
                I hope that was a joke.


                But incase it wasn't, that's just a variation on 'it makes you happy'. How is achieving goals which are not in your self-interest a self-interested action? They are selfless goals, just as it would be selfless happiness.
                Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                Do It Ourselves

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                • #83
                  Btw, all tautologies result in a feedback loop - so it's no detriment to the truth value of the statement.

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                  • #84
                    My position is thus.

                    An altruistic act would be someone performing a completely selfless act.

                    But...

                    i) I doubt any act is completely selfless
                    ii) and if there was, no-one would do it

                    THis is just rationality.
                    www.my-piano.blogspot

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Park Avenue


                      And I did. I first asked you to provide an example of a completely selfless act.
                      Yes, so that I could give you one and then you could say... "but why do you want to do that? because it makes you.... happy? "


                      We've gone through that already.
                      Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                      Do It Ourselves

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                        Tell me this - would Hobbes consider buying a fancy car (as opposed to a cost-efficient one) or paying a hooker to be self-interested?
                        All of these things are out of context. They are in the context of utility value theory. That starts with JS Mill.
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                        • #87
                          How are they out of context?

                          EDIT: in fact, if Hobbes' definition is limited only to specific contexts, I'd say that's a failure right there - since we're making universal statements.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                            How are they out of context?

                            EDIT: in fact, if Hobbes' definition is limited only to specific contexts, I'd say that's a failure right there - since we're making universal statements.
                            Philosophers didn't talk how goods produce different levels of utility (economic) until atleast Mill. Really they didn't talk specifically about it until after Marx. It's a reaction to the Marxist Labor Theory of Value.

                            And again, you seem to think there is some kind of universal context. It's usually not possible to make 'universal' statements, not in this case anyway.
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • #89
                              Why not?

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                                Why not?
                                Why not what?
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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