Rational agent. Self Interest.

[Az]

It seems noone has replied to me.

Satisfaction/Happiness is indeed a person's self interest. However, by giving up something, one can sometimes give up more happiness than recieve in the process of giving. That would make that action against his self interest. That would be a sacrifice. Just like the amount of happiness that a comrade recieves from jumping on a grenade is negligble in comparison to a life fully lived!

[Kuciwalker]

I'm agreeing with Park Avenue

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
"What needs to be accepted is that satisification can be derived from doing things not in your self interest."

This just doesn't make sense..if you deriving satisfaction from something (eating nice food, giving money to beggars), then those things are in your self-interest.

Go re-read my post. Again. Go read the post I made about cause and effect, too.

But even if you do not want to seperate the action from the resulting happiness, it is still the cause that gives it meaning. Again, if the act is selfess the happiness inherits that selflessness because it is a result of the (selfless) action and is derived for selfless reasons.


Look at it this way, the act of being happy at other people's benefit is altruistic.

[Kuciwalker]

So? Altruism and self-interest are not exclusive! Altruism is a subset of self-interested behavior.

[KrazyHorse]

I'm so happy I'm not a right-winger.

[Last Conformist]

QED.

[Az]

So? Altruism and self-interest are not exclusive! Altruism is a subset of self-interested behavior.

have you read anything, but anything from what I've written?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So? Altruism and self-interest are not exclusive! Altruism is a subset of self-interested behavior.

Ah-ha! So you are no longer arguing that altruism does not exist?

If you simply want to hold the view that everything you do is in your interest because it's what you happen to be doing, go ahead. It's a ridiculously blatant, obvious, and redundant thing to say, but go ahead and say it. You can say that red is red and blue is blue while you're at it, too. Just don't say that altruism doesn't exist.

[Az]

Ah-ha! So you are no longer arguing that altruism does not exist?

I may not agree with you fully on this topic, but...

LOL OMG PWNZD N00B!!!!!11111111

[Solly]

You got to either accept that

i) Altruism doesn't exist

or ii) Altruism makes the giver feel some satisfaction too (so it is thus in his self-interest)

[Solly]

And as a subset of ii)..

You probably gain more satisfaction from fooling yourself into thinking it is a completely selfless act.

Like some here do..

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Of course it does. There's no inconsistency in having your own utility function rate itself based at least partly on others' utility functions. In fact, this is what vengeance is, just with someone becoming happy due to another's loss. In fact, this is what utilitarianism is! The total utility is the sum of everyone's happiness!

My point is, what is the purpose of assuming that people will do whatever makes them happy. We can not pin point a specific behavior, and so can not make predictions. If we assume that people don't give a crap about others utility we can make predictions. That's not to say that they actually are selfish.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Azazel
However, by giving up something, one can sometimes give up more happiness than recieve in the process of giving.

They would either be acting outside of their self-interest, or they would be making a mistake then.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
You got to either accept that

i) Altruism doesn't exist

or ii) Altruism makes the giver feel some satisfaction too (so it is thus in his self-interest)

I told you to re-read my post, not yours.

Get back to me when you can explain to me how deriving satisfication through completely selfless acts is self-interested. Aside from the ever popular, "because it makes you happy!", of course, which ignores all meaning and reason and just loops right back into the question.

[Solly]

"Get back to me when you can explain to me how deriving satisfication through completely selfless acts is self-interested."

Show me a completely selfless act.