Linda Rondstadt fired for supporting Michael Moore! What about freedom of Speech?

[Ming]

Their show of displeasure falls under the same "freedom of speech" argument that allows the original person to speak their mind.

People can give their views, and people can show their views in regards to the views given. Should people be forced to listen to somebodies opinion, and not have an opinion of their own?

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


I asked my mom about this, as she is a big Linda Rondstadt fan and has all of her albums. Mom said it wasn't a shock to her, either--she'd been to several concerts, and Rondstadt had always expressed support for liberal causes, although she couldn't recall anything overtly political.

An interesting insight my mom had is that Rondstadt has, as of late, been decidedly lackluster in her concerts, just going through the motions, not giving encores, etc. So maybe the audience was already steamed at being treated to a mediocre show for which they paid $80 a ticket, and then the political commentary was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

On the last paragraph, Boris, see the quote from Ronstadt that I posted. It sounds like you could be pretty much on the mark.

[Sava]

I'm not saying this is a legal freedom of speech issue. Legally, the people who kicked Rondstandt out did nothing wrong. I just think it sucks. I wish something like this wouldn't happen in America.

I think it says something about the right wing in general. When someone expresses a liberal viewpoint, they must be punished. But you don't see pro-Bush celebrities being attacked for their viewpoints. I guess liberals have more respect for people than the right wingers do.

[Drake Tungsten]

Who the hell is Linda Rondstadt?

She dated Barney Gumble at one time, IIRC.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Yes... freedom of speech. It kind of is a two way street. You can say what you want but people can protest that or boycott it. Saying that people exercising their free speech rights is detrimental to free speech is just an absurd position.

You know, that is like saying:

It is anti-freedom to deny people the freedom to kill others!

The two actions are not equivalent. One is voicing an opinion on a action- the other voicing an opinion on an opinion. One is meant to protest an act (with the hope that the act will be reversed or public opinion will formulate around a different policy). The other is an act hoping to change the opinion of others through pressure- not debate, but pressure, do X or we will punish you for it this way.

If Ben got on stage in a gay bar in Chelsea and spoke against gay marriage and the audience booed him and forced him out and tore at his picture, they would be as misguided as this one. In a society with real freedom of speech and tolerance of it, people would listen to all he had to say-then le him get off, then speak counter to what he said. That is freedom of speech and toleration.

As I said, there is a difference between freedom and liberty. Yes, people are free to boycott anyhting they want- the question is what is their aim? You don't boycott if your aim is to debate and discuss and come to an agreement, or a decision. You boycott to force others to change course-and when that is done in order to get tohers to change tyheir opinions not by debating them and showing them the error, or the opposite view, but rather by demeaning thir opinions or stating they are worthy of boycott, just as you would boycott a malfeasence.

So in esscence, boycotting someone for their opinion is the same as saying they have done something wrong- how on earth do we serve freedom of speech if syaing something can be labelled as "wrong" not in a factual but moral sense? It is little better than various European laws conservatives here always bring up in terms of speech.

[pchang]

Votes

In political elections, we vote on what we want. In many cases, things are not up for a vote. Boycotts are like votes, but with money. How do you get rid of a particular brand of product? You don't buy it. If it is especially irksome to you, you might try and organize a boycott. To counter the boycott of the Rondstadt brand, you can buy more and make positive advertisements for it.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
If Ben got on stage in a gay bar in Chelsea and spoke against gay marriage and the audience booed him and forced him out and tore at his picture, they would be as misguided as this one.

Would he charge 80$ to entertain them, bore them instead, and then irritate them with his opinions? If not then I fail to see how it is comparable to this situation?

[Ming]

Originally posted by GePap
As I said, there is a difference between freedom and liberty. Yes, people are free to boycott anyhting they want- the question is what is their aim? You don't boycott if your aim is to debate and discuss and come to an agreement, or a decision. You boycott to force others to change course-and when that is done in order to get tohers to change tyheir opinions not by debating them and showing them the error, or the opposite view, but rather by demeaning thir opinions or stating they are worthy of boycott, just as you would boycott a malfeasence.

That is one point of view... one might also argue that people aren't trying to force people to change their mind... (Like the Dixie Chicks are going to ever change their minds ) For many it's a simple matter that they no longer want to spend their hard earned dollars to support somebody they disagree with. You wouldn't give money to a political party you disagree with, so what's the difference?

[Gibsie]

We've had people thrown out of shopping malls for wearing anti-war T-shirts, the Dixie Chicks have received numerous death threats for similar reasons, scientists who let slip they don't worship the ground Bush walks on get passed up for jobs in government agencies- come on, this sort of behaviour from the right-wing is absolutely par for the course. And probably the left too. Why is anyone surprised?

[Boris Godunov]

I have to say, this quote made me guffaw:

"It's a real conflict for me when I go to a concert and find out somebody in the audience is a Republican or fundamental Christian. It can cloud my enjoyment. I'd rather not know."

--Rondstadt, in an interview.

Well, honey, what's good for the goose... ever think that your espousal of your beliefs in a concert is clouding the audience's enjoyment? And they're the ones who are paying money for it.

That pisses me off. If she was interested in expression of ideas and an exchange of them, that's one thing. But it seems she just wants to be able to give her view to a captive audience and then not give a crap what they have to think.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by GePap
If Ben got on stage in a gay bar in Chelsea and spoke against gay marriage and the audience booed him and forced him out and tore at his picture, they would be as misguided as this one.

Um, not quite. People don't go to gay bars to hear political diatribes or be confronted with complaints they are sinners. They go to bars to drink, cruise, people watch, have fun with friends, etc. There's a place for everything, and inside a privately-owned bar ain't it. The owners would certainly have every right to throw him to the curb.

Now, if he stood on a street corner in Chelsea and did it, that'd be a different story.

[Gibsie]

If this Linda Ronstadt chick was at the Republican Convention and gave Michael Moore the thumbs-up on stage, I don't think anyone would be complaining if she got the boot. That is the equivelent of going to a gay bar and saying "I dedicate this song to Ben Kenobi", not what actually happened to her

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Gibsie
That is the equivelent of going to a gay bar and saying "I dedicate this song to Ben Kenobi"

They would just assume you were some sort of Star Wars fanboy.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

I asked my mom about this, as she is a big Linda Rondstadt fan and has all of her albums. Mom said it wasn't a shock to her, either--she'd been to several concerts, and Rondstadt had always expressed support for liberal causes, although she couldn't recall anything overtly political.

I didnt mean that she ran for a political position herself. I would call her political in the same way that Baez is political i.e. she actively espouses her liberal causes through her public platform.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava
not a troll...

That's pretty sad, then, if you actually believed half the crap in your post.