Linda Rondstadt fired for supporting Michael Moore! What about freedom of Speech?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
No, this is a greedy, ruthless casino owner looking at dollar signs, and escorting her off the property is one way of limiting liability. Rondstadt isn't some poor little waif, so if anything of hers was damaged, missing, or if she was intimidated, harassed, or any other tortious conduct, she could sue the casino's pants off. It may be in bankruptcy and in the process of being sold, but lawsuits filed post-bankruptcy petition can be quite disruptive to sales plans.

And wanting to protect yourself from potentially large liability due solely to the need of some washed-up, has-been of a singer to make a political statement is just being greedy?

Could you tell me where you live so that I may plan an 'accident' for myself on or around your property, since you are obviously not 'greedy' or 'ruthless' enough to not want me to take you to the cleaners in your joke of a court system?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Look at this thread... obviously someone cares what they think.

If I want to learn about singing I might be interested in hearing what Rondstadt has to say. But I'm as interested in her opinion about politics as I am in her opinion about plumbing.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sikander
If I want to learn about singing I might be interested in hearing what Rondstadt has to say. But I'm as interested in her opinion about politics as I am in her opinion about plumbing.

Music is expression. She expresses her thoughts and feelings in song all the time. Why does expressing it through spoken words make it different?

I think the casino owner (and the audience) overreacted, from what the story says. All she did was dedicate a song to Moore. She didn't endorse everything he says, or even go into specifics (I love how Drudge called it an "Anti-Bush tirade," when Bush apparently wasn't even mentioned, and it certainly wasn't a tirade).

The owner made a big to-do about it and probably gave more ammunition to Moore. On top of that, since Rondstadt was only booked for the one show, the spectacle could serve to alienate far more people from the hotel than it would have had he just let it go and then opted not to hire her again. The story certainly would never have gained national media attention.

So, I suppose he exercised his full rights, but it was done in a stupid, needlessly publicized way.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Music is expression. She expresses her thoughts and feelings in song all the time. Why does expressing it through spoken words make it different.

They know her music before they hire her?

What do you think would happen to a singer who spontaneously began to belt out 'Deutschland ueber Alles' in New York in the late 40's, or today for that matter?

I would be somewhat surprised if a singer I hired did that.

I feel like I'm talking to that guy with no teeth who always answers wrong on Jeopardy according to History Bites. Timmy, I think his name is.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by notyoueither
They know her music before they hire her?

Not always...I doubt casino owners personally review the contents of every song in a performer's program, especially very famous ones.

What do you think would happen to a singer who spontaneously began to belt out 'Deutschland ueber Alles' in New York in the late 40's, or today for that matter?

I would be somewhat surprised if a singer I hired did that.

How is this relevant to what I was addressing? I was addressing Sikander's objection to singer's expressing themselves through means other than song, as if they had no right to do anything other than sing. I don't see why it makes a difference if they express themselves in song or the spoken word or in oragami, for that matter.

[DinoDoc]

Who the hell is Linda Rondstadt?

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Who the hell is Linda Rondstadt?

I second that. And why the hell should I care about the hungry hippo?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Not always...I doubt casino owners personally review the contents of every song in a performer's program, especially very famous ones.

How is this relevant to what I was addressing? I was addressing Sikander's objection to singer's expressing themselves through means other than song, as if they had no right to do anything other than sing. I don't see why it makes a difference if they express themselves in song or the spoken word or in oragami, for that matter.

I think casino owners would give their bookers guidelines. Like, I'd like my patrons to be happy, and not get pissed off. Perhaps the patrons would get pissed off because the entertainer thinks that some humongous **** who is very controvertial at the moment due to his active campaigning in multiple countries for left wing causes is a good plan.

You know, they might say, don't hire Castro, or OBL, or Bush for that matter. And don;t hire anyone who is gonna piss off half the audience from one side or the other by saying stupid things.

Common sense, I would have thought.

As a business owner, what my employees say, even the hired monkey out front who is supposed to entertain my clients, is my business. If that monkey pisses off people to the point of them doing violence to parts of the premises, then your damn straight that monkey is gonna be taken out back and shot, double quick.

[Boris Godunov]

Could you miss my point any more?

The theater owner had every right to do what he did--I never argued he didn't, although I think he made a potentially bad move by handling it in the manner he did.

Once again--I was addressing Sikander's objection that singer's political views somehow aren't relevant to their careers. Would you say that to Bob Dylan? Singers often express their views in song, so what difference does it make if they express themselves in words? Why would the medium matter more than the message?

[notyoueither]

'as if they had no right to do anything other than sing. I don't see why it makes a difference if they express themselves in song or the spoken word or in oragami'

If you hire Dylan you should know what you are getting. Or you are terminally stupid.

To go a way to agree with you, I think the guy needs to follow up by firing his bookers. The article says that Ronstadt has been doing the same thing in every stop before Vegas.

But still, obviously both he and his patrons were surprised by the spoken message of the artist. You don't like what they say to a room of 5000 people? You got grounds to say, buh-bye!

Your rights to express yourself don't trump my rights to control what happens on my property and goes on in my business. Not even in Canada.

[Boris Godunov]

Are you daft? Or are you just choosing not to read what I said?

The theater owner had every right to do what he did--I never argued he didn't

For pete's sake, that's not what I'm arguing about! It wasn't addressing that to the owner! I'm talking about Sikander!

[notyoueither]

as if they had no right to do anything other than sing. I don't see why it makes a difference if they express themselves in song or the spoken word or in oragami

and in bold, in case you are daft and miss half of what you type.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by notyoueither
and in bold, in case you are daft and miss half of what you type.

Yes, makes a difference to Sikander. The point was a response to his saying

"If I want to learn about singing I might be interested in hearing what Rondstadt has to say. But I'm as interested in her opinion about politics as I am in her opinion about plumbing."

And my point is that her singing contains expression, just as her words do, so what's the real difference, to him?

[notyoueither]

I'm sure.

Music is expression. She expresses her thoughts and feelings in song all the time. Why does expressing it through spoken words make it different?

Duhhh, because the proprietor and his patrons were 'bushwhacked'?

The booker wasn't. The booker should have been led out right after the singer.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Duhhh, because the proprietor and his patrons were 'bushwhacked'?

The booker wasn't. The booker should have been led out right after the singer.

, yet again

I'm not talking about the proprietor, patrons, or the bookers, I'm talking about Sikander. Your continuing to bring up the specifics of this incident, which are NOT what I'm addressing in my comments to Sikander.

I'll phrase it another way, and I'll use plumbing, since then you can't get caught up in the politics sillyness. According to Sikander, a singer shouldn't do anything but sing, as that's all they're experts on. But singers don't just sing "la la la," they express things in their songs--be it love, politics, or plumbing. So if she wrote a song about plumbing, presumably that would be okay, but if she talked about it, suddenly her message is meaningless. My question is, why? The only reason that would be is if one doesn't care about the expression in the songs at all, which would make me wonder why one would even bother to listen to them in the first place.