Homosexuals and Fascism (article from A&L)

[Giancarlo]

I am attacking the arguments. I said leftism is fatally flawed because it does not accept inevitable capitalism. People are inherently capitalist. They like to have an open market to buy and sell goods. Just look at Ebay, a 21st example. And bazaars that have been in the world for centuries. People are naturally capitalist, not communist.

And there are no communist elements existing in a capitalist society. Welfare is not a communist thing. Sorry.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Moral claims have to function to be valid. In this case communism can't function because it is a fatally flawed theory.

No they don't. A moral goal can be achieved more or less well. For example, we would like to prevent all murders, but we can't. Same goes for wars.

Similarly, we might want to form a communist society, but be frustrated by lack of technology or human weakness. If that were the case one could still say that a communist society was our moral goal in that it is the standard by which relative achievement is judged.

[Whaleboy]

I am attacking the arguments. I said leftism is fatally flawed because it does not accept inevitable capitalism.

I'm saying that you would have a point if you were describing one political theory, not a big spectrum of them. "Leftism" does, and can accept capitalism, otherwise it's necessary conclusion would be a return to a hunter-gatherer society. Note that "left" and "right" is simply an economic policy that a wise economist in my opinion should use flexibly and not dogmatically. It does not constitute a moral theory on its own, not even a political theory, since theories on the "left" can wildly differ socially... from Stalinism against whom your views are less incorrect, to libertarian communism which works all over the world.

And there are no communist elements existing in a capitalist society. Welfare is not a communist thing. Sorry.

Of course there are... there are communist elements whereever humans cooperate! A word of advice would be to not be so black-and-white about these things.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Whaleboy


I'm saying that you would have a point if you were describing one political theory, not a big spectrum of them. "Leftism" does, and can accept capitalism, otherwise it's necessary conclusion would be a return to a hunter-gatherer society. Note that "left" and "right" is simply an economic policy that a wise economist in my opinion should use flexibly and not dogmatically. It does not constitute a moral theory on its own, not even a political theory, since theories on the "left" can wildly differ socially... from Stalinism against whom your views are less incorrect, to libertarian communism which works all over the world.

Capitalism in its best senses is the greatest system in the world and cannot be challanged. You must be corrected. Flexibility is only found in capitalism as it uses techniques of the market place, not illogical central control. Libertarian "communism" doesn't exist.

And what is the difference? Leftism? Stalinism? Communism? It is all the same.

Of course there are... there are communist elements whereever humans cooperate! A word of advice would be to not be so black-and-white about these things.

The cooperation is brought along by capitalism, it is a cooperation brought along by capitalism and the market place. Not invalid and non-existent communism. You are right, communism has and never will exist. None of its elements exist either.

[OzzyKP]

Ugh, this is a dumb played out argument. This'll be my first and last post on the subject.

Given: Marx, in the manifesto, called for a dictator to lead the people toward the ideal state of communist anarchy.
Given: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Therefore: Any person thrown into such a dictator position will *necessarily* be a Stalin, or Pol Pot, or Mao.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So in other words, you do not understand basic psychology of humans.

Of course I do... it's the people who want to paint the homophobes as gay who do not. Maybe they REALLY want it to be that way, but they really understand nothing at all about human psychology. It's a way for gays to say, ha ha, you are really gay deep down, but has absolutely no basis in fact.

Are racists really black inside? Are sexists really women? Please.

[Agathon]

1) Powerlessness often corrupts as much as power.

2) One can agree with Marx' end without agreeing with Marx' means.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

So in other words, you do not understand basic psychology of humans.

Of course I do... it's the people who want to paint the homophobes as gay who do not. Maybe they REALLY want it to be that way, but they really understand nothing at all about human psychology. It's a way for gays to say, ha ha, you are really gay deep down, but has absolutely no basis in fact.

There has been a study that has shown 80% of homophobes are in fact gay or have gay tendencies. In fact that study was posted on this forum. It is called being brainwashed by religion, feeling guilty and supressing oneself. Then going after gay people.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There has been a study that has shown 80% of homophobes are in fact gay or have gay tendencies.

I'm calling bull****... especially since it is coming from you . Any 'studies' that show many homophobes are gay are politically biased and motivated. It makes no sense. Like I said above, are racists really black inside? Are sexists really women? So why are homophobes really gay? Because you think that'd be funny?

Sorry, don't buy it one bit.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

There has been a study that has shown 80% of homophobes are in fact gay or have gay tendencies.

I'm calling bull****... especially since it is coming from you . Any 'studies' that show many homophobes are gay are politically biased and motivated. It makes no sense. Like I said above, are racists really black inside? Are sexists really women? So why are homophobes really gay? Because you think that'd be funny?

Sorry, don't buy it one bit.

I call bull**** on you. You are just stating that without evidence. Could you counter my claim with evidence? People like Fred Phelps I bet have had an messed up child hood. Homophobes are really gay/bi and are homophobic because they feel guilty about their true selves. They then towards discrimination of others. Sexual orientation is not uniformly heterosexual in every race.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You are Emeril should get together...

BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM!

Could you counter my claim with evidence first?

[Giancarlo]

You have to counter the claim homophobes are gay first. Then I will counter it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Sexual orientation is not uniformly heterosexual in every race.

Not in the Aryan race!!!!!!!!!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

You have to counter the claim homophobes are gay first.

Emeril again: BAM! BAM!

Since you are making the assertion 'homophobes are really gay', the onus of proof is on you.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

You have to counter the claim homophobes are gay first.

Emeril again: BAM! BAM!

Since you are making the assertion 'homophobes are really gay', the onus of proof is on you.

You said the claim was bull**** first, therefore you must disprove it.