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  • Bill O'Reilly sez you're unpatriotic if...

    You think the US is a terrorist country...

    Aside from the question as to whether or not it is and assuming O'Reilly thinks patriotism is good, I have a couple questions:

    1) Does this mean the Afghans, Iraqis and Germans who supported the Taliban, Saddam and Hitler were patriots?

    2) If so, doesn't this make O'Reilly's definition ridiculous from a moral point of view?

    Now as to whether or not the US is a terrorist nation, one man's freedom fighter is often another man's terrorist. For example, Reagan supported the Contras and even compared them with the Founding Fathers calling them "freedom fighters". But my knowledge of the Contras, albeit somewhat limited, leads me to believe they were in fact terrorists. They avoided direct battles with the Sandanistas instead opting for guerilla warfare which primarily involved attacking defenseless villages killing farmers, teachers, health care providers, etc... The result of ~8 years of this was to pressure the general populace into voting for a government that found some favor with the Contras in 1988 as opposed to the Ortegas and Sandanistas.

    The irony is that while many in the GOP claim the Nicaraguan election in 1988 was "free", it was in fact a coerced vote - continue supporting the Sandanistas and face more terrorism or support the Sandinastas' opposition and bring it to an end. Who were the Contras if not the ruling elite, police and military under the previous dictators - the Somozas? Furthermore, US support for the Contras had a similar effect to what happened in Spain's election just after the Madrid bombings. A campaign of terror brought about a regime change... This seems to have been a common tactic of US foreign policy during the cold war...

    Democrats and Republicans, on you

  • #2
    Re: Bill O'Reilly sez you're unpatriotic if...

    Originally posted by Berzerker
    You think the US is a terrorist country...
    '

    Well, duh. Loving your country is pretty much a requirement for patriotism...

    Comment


    • #3
      But how can patriotism be moral if loving terrorism is a requirement when we are the terrorists?

      Comment


      • #4
        Relativity

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bill O'Reilly sez you're unpatriotic if...

          Originally posted by Berzerker
          Now as to whether or not the US is a terrorist nation, one man's freedom fighter is often another man's terrorist.
          This is one of the more vomit worthy statements I've seen uttered by so many people.
          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

          Comment


          • #6
            Or put another way, if we are to assume that patriotism is moral (as O'Reilly does), how can one be a patriot if their government supports terrorism? You can love your child even if they do something immoral, but according to O'Reilly's definition, the parent in that scenario cannot believe their child did something immoral.

            Comment


            • #7
              This is one of the more vomit worthy statements I've seen uttered by so many people.
              I agree, either they are terrorists or they are freedom fighters. But that leaves us with a problem - our terrorists are freedom fighters and the terrorists we don't like are...terrorists... How else can you get people like Reagan calling the Contras "freedom fighters" when they empoyed terrorist tactics?

              Comment


              • #8
                Another example, undoubtedly O'Reilly would condemn Jim Crow laws and the KKK's terrorist tactics in enforcing many of those laws. Problem: how does he claim to be a patriot when he recognises and despises the terrorism employed to enforce the government's laws?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Re: Bill O'Reilly sez you're unpatriotic if...

                  Originally posted by DinoDoc
                  This is one of the more vomit worthy statements I've seen uttered by so many people.
                  Well, I know how unpalpatable you find the truth to be, but heck- we can always use the Reagan as an example- his backing of Jonas Sabimvi in Angola- Reagan called his a great freedom fighter. Interms of behavior, he is indistinguisable from plenty of terrorist orgs. Oh, him and the Contras as well- they commited terrorism acts and bombings.
                  If you don't like reality, change it! me
                  "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                  "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                  "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How is this an issue? Of course you can't be considered patriotic if you think your country is a terrorist state. DUH!
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What do you call a terrorist who employ freedom fighter tactics?
                      So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
                      Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                        How is this an issue? Of course you can't be considered patriotic if you think your country is a terrorist state. DUH!
                        There I have to agree with Imran- the label of "terrorist" is inhrently pejorative. If you think the US is a terrorist state you can;t really be labelled patriotic. If you think we have a terrorist administration, well, that is different.
                        If you don't like reality, change it! me
                        "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                        "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                        "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Re: Re: Bill O'Reilly sez you're unpatriotic if...

                          Originally posted by GePap


                          Well, I know how unpalpatable you find the truth to be,
                          I'll tell you if that's the case if and when I find it in this thread. Personally, I tend to believe that those who deliberately kill innocent civilians aren't particularly interested freedom and those who trample on human rights aren't the best people to try defending them. The choice of means indicates that they are forerunners of tyranny.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you think we have a terrorist administration, well, that is different.


                            That's true. I guess it depends on what the speaker means, which sometimes can be difficult to discern in things like this.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think the bigger question is why does Berz have such a bug up his ass about Bill O'Reilly?
                              "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
                              "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
                              "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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