Discussion on the Goblet of Fire, Severus Snape

[Verto]

Whatever happened with Cho, the Asian chick? Did they have a falling away? It's been a while for me, refresh my memory.

[DinoDoc]

Do they have a Defense against the Dark Arts professor that's not cursed or evil in some way?

[Verto]

Gilderoy Lockhart wasn't exactly cursed, or evil.

[DinoDoc]

If that's the guy from the second book, he tried to lobotomize Harry & Ron.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Movies 1-3.

Ah. So there's some things that the director didn't really make clear that I need to tell you about.

Here's a short summary of important things learned in PoA. Some of this is in the movie, some can be inferred, and some is basically missing completely from the movie.


When James Potter went to school, he was good friends with Lupin, Sirius Black, and Peter Pettigrew. Together, they learned how to become Animagi: people who can transmogrify themselves into animals. Sirius could become a dog, Pettigrew could become a rat. This is unclear from the movie, but James could become a stag. That's why Harry's Patronus was a stag. Lupin, of course, was a werewolf. This wasn't something he learned, obviously, but it's still kind of an animal thing. So there's a werewolf, a rat, a dog, and a stag. They developed nicknames for each other based on those transformations: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs. If you remember from PoA, those were the people who made the Marauder's Map.

Now, when they graduated, they still remained friends. James married Lily, and Sirius was the best man at their wedding. When Voldemort rose to power, for some reasons, which remain unclear, even as of book 5, Voldemort very much wanted to kill the Potters. And when Voldemort wanted to kill someone, he generally managed it. So the Potters used a very powerful charm to keep him from finding them. I forget the exact name, but it's a secret keeping charm. Where the Potters were hiding could not be discovered without the consent of a single person, the Secret Keeper. They wanted Sirius to be the Secret Keeper, but they decided that it would be too obvious. So instead they secretly made their secret keeper be Wormtail (Pettigrew). However, Wormtail was weak, and he betrayed them them, so Voldemort was able to find and kill the Potters.

[SnowFire]

I'm slightly out of practice on HP lore, but I'll give it a shot.

The one too cowardly to return is Karkaroff, and the one who remains the most loyal servant was Barty Crouch Jr. This is quite obvious. I also assumed that the one Voldemort believes has left him forever is Snape.

Yeah. Snape was a Death Eater- he has the tatto and all- and he definitely didn't appear at the circle, since everybody there didn't cover their faces, and he was back at the school. So he must be the one who left forever.

As for Snape being an incredible occlumens, that explains how he spied the first time. After all, he kept track of their movements and sold them out like crazy for a quite reasonable amount of time. The thing is, according to Dumbledore's memories, the trials of Black, Crouch, and so on were rather public affairs. I'm sure that somewhere in Karkaroff's trial (or was it Bagman's?) there they say something along the lines of "Dumbledore has vouched for Snape, and he's turned in evidence against the others- before Voldemort's dissapearance." I can't imagine how those trial records could be that well sealed, judging by the fact they were even letting a young Rita Skeeter attend. Even if they were, certainly Lucius Malfoy could have gotten access to them with his connections.

But we do know that Malfoy still thinks the world of Snape and still considers him an ally. Plus, Voldemort has certainly had time to chat with Malfoy in the events of the fifth book. Why he hasn't ordered Malfoy to kill Snape, or at least not pass sensitive information when he's around... hmm.

This would be so much easier to explain if Snape wasn't a Death Eater with the tatto. But he's gotta be. So I'm going to run with the fact that V says "that I believe has left my service." If Snape runs back and makes up excuses for why he ignored the call of the Dark Mark, maybe he might suceed. Of couse, that doesn't explain how he convinced Malfoy that he was still his buddy in all the years of Voldemort's exile. It's possible that some other magic is involved.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Verto
Whatever happened with Cho, the Asian chick? Did they have a falling away? It's been a while for me, refresh my memory.

She was introduced in book 3, but she wasn't in movie 3 because she wasn't that significant to the story at that time. However, she has been cast for movie 4. The actress cast for the part is named Katie Leung.

Here's what happened with her in books 4 and 5. Spoiler tags inserted for the sake of DD.

Spoiler:

So in book 4, Harry asks Cho to the Yule Ball, but she's already going with Cedric so she has to refuse. Then at the end Cedric snuffs it, of course.

In book 5, Cho kisses Harry under the Mistletoe at Christmas. She says he's very brave for publishing that interview in the Quibbler. But then she gets all weepy about Cedric a bunch of times, which turns him off a little. Then the big fight occurs when Cho's friend, Marietta, snitches to Umbridge about Harry's little anti-Umbridge "club" and they get into a huge fight about that. Also, Cho gets angry at him because she's jealous of Hermione. So then they kind of sour on the whole thing.

Rowling has said there will be no more romance with Cho, but that there will be a "little bit" of romance for Harry in book 6.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by SnowFire
This would be so much easier to explain if Snape wasn't a Death Eater with the tatto. But he's gotta be. So I'm going to run with the fact that V says "that I believe has left my service." If Snape runs back and makes up excuses for why he ignored the call of the Dark Mark, maybe he might suceed. Of couse, that doesn't explain how he convinced Malfoy that he was still his buddy in all the years of Voldemort's exile. It's possible that some other magic is involved.

What's weird is that this part of the story line seems to just freeze in book five. I don't think we see anything about Snape doing anything other than teaching and tutoring Harry in Occlumency.

[SnowFire]

Uh... no?

Snape was doing big secret stuff for Dumbledore the whole summer. He was reporting on something to the Order of the Phoenix- Harry said that he had a smirk and was feeling all important. We can only presume it was the spying.

Later on in the school year, he was mostly tied down being the Order's representative at Hogwarts what with Umbridge around. If only Harry had had more sense and figured this out.

[Jaguar]

I read OotP nonstop on release day and haven't read it since. Maybe I should go back and look at it. I think I probably missed a lot because I was in a hurry to find out what happens.

[FrustratedPoet]

I did that too. I read books 4 and 5 in such a frenzy that I think only about half of them found their way into my long-term memory.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I assumed, as all of you probably did, that Snape is going back to Voldemort to work as a double agent for Dumbledore.

Who says? Unless we have further proof of it, I'm not going to assume it happens. The one who left forever is Snape. They both know that Voldemort would not accept anyone who didn't answer the Dark Mark.... UNLESS Snape and Dumbledore had already planned to have Snape working in close proximity to Voldemort and thus being the 'most faithful servant'... thus making Crouch the one who left forever, but I doubt it.

if Harry develops a romantic relationship with anyone, I'm betting that it'll be Luna. No other student makes sense to me.

Um... GINNY! It's so obvious... especially since Harry really notices Ginny for the first time in OoTP. She's kind of like Lilly in that she is very confident and won't take crap. Also we can surmise that she is very attractive since a lot of guys want to date her. And finally, it makes perfect sense in the respect that what Harry always wanted was family and the Weasley's have been the closest thing to that... what would be better than actually being part of the family by blood!

Ron and Luna is hinted at far more

Yep. Luna was seriously hitting on Ron. I have a feeling that Luna is only there to racket up the jealousy of Hermione, leading to Ron and Hermione getting together.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Anyway here is an interesting article on Mugglenet about this passage, which provides a TOTALLY different answer :

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt15.shtml

It also banks on arguments made by others that the Death Eaters named at the end of GoF aren't ALL the DE's in the circle. This argument also says that Snape was one of the unnamed DE's, but I don't buy that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And some interesting stuff on Snape:

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-cindy1.shtml

[FrustratedPoet]

Those articles are fantastic. Some are more than a little far-fetched, but they're all a good read.