Western Sudan - what is to be done?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


And you think that the threat of sanctions might change their minds on the matter, and make them stop? I'm skeptical. I think the options are:

1) invade
2) take the undesirables out of there

Neither of which is a great solution, I know.

-Arrian

its a poor country. It has govt that wants to develop - if only to buy palaces and shiny weapons. It has oil and gas, BUT it needs investment to develop them. Its worth a shot - obviously i wouldnt wait to long, not with people dying.

But if we cant get the great powers to agree to sanctions how can we get them to agree to war?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Definately a bad situation, but it wasn't genocide in Congo . . . at least not until the Rift Valley countries invaded. And it's actually more complicated than that, but it's definately not the same situation.

but we dont know what the result of a chad-sudan war would be - it might be very prolonged and very bloody. Theres also the chance, in a prolonged war, of an AQ state in Sudan - that could be overthrown by the West, but might escalate West - Muslim tensions.


Far better to act FAST, and Surgically. And that means Western troops, not 3rd world troops.

[Arrian]

Well, like I said before, I think option #1 is right out. Even if Iraq wasn't happening, it still wouldn't stand much of a chance, IMO.

That leaves #2, which has slightly worse odds than a snowball surviving a day in hell.

Which leaves sanctions, which worry me greatly. *sigh*

Maybe you're right and they could work in this specific case. I dunno.

What I *do* know is that my workday is over and I can go home.

-Arrian

[chequita guevara]

The first thing, I guess, to do, is to get recognition that a genocide is taking place.

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


1. AIPAC does both lobbying AND letter writing. they certainly spend money on letter writing campaigns. So do corporations as a matter of fact.

Yes, they pay people to collect names and addresses and then send mass mailings of form letters- I have dealt with such letters myself.

2. Yup, only the staff see it. and they count em, and report the totals.

Well, only if it is more than 1 really.

3. Christian groups - im not sure if theyre taking it up, as the victims are muslims, not christians as in the south. In any case, why not add more weight - why should someone elses action argue for inaction.

They already have stuff in Sudan and dislike the government-besides, they might always have missionary interests in the area anyway. I am sure they are already on it. As for adding your voice, go right ahead, its your right. I am pointing out that this issue will be mainly ignored due to its location, sadly.

[chequita guevara]

SGS: Stop the Genocide in Sudan!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


2. Yup, only the staff see it. and they count em, and report the totals. [/q]

Well, only if it is more than 1 really.

well yes, thats why you organize. we have here a forum of people, in many countries, who are happy to spend time flaming each other about who cares about oppression, etc. Why not use this tool TO DO something, instead of whining. and, BTW, why not do the same on other internet forums?

(bows hat to Howard Dean)

[chequita guevara]

So, website with information on the genocide and how people can help? At least to start?

[lightblue]

Sudan was a British colony right? I suppose they could repeat what they did in Sierra Leone (though with Sudan's size they'd probably need more help), if it weren't for Iraq and Afghanistan taking most of thir soldiers at the moment.

[GePap]

Sudan was a joint British-Egyptian territory, since the UK sought control only after they took control in Egypt, and Egyptian forces were already in the Sudan.

[Spiffor]

I say UN intervention with a joint Euro / Egyptian leadership (and heavy on Egyptian troops).

I wouldn't trust such a force to do wonders, but I would trust it to stop the genocide and set up a relatively safe zone, given that violence comes mostly from lawful, exterior troops.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The first thing, I guess, to do, is to get recognition that a genocide is taking place.

That would be good.

Here, the TV media started talking about Darfur only 3 days ago, as a team of journalists sent their report after a week there or so. The tone of the article was far less accusatory as what it should have been. Sure, we only got to see the vsurvivors of the ethnic cleansing, and not the perpetrators, but it really didn't insist on the blatant: a government-made ethnic cleansing.

It may have to do with Sudan giving us something in the past (renowned terrorist Carlos), traded for France's neutrality in Sudan's internal affairs.

[chequita guevara]

The problem is, once it is officially recognized as a genocide, governments are legally required to get involved. Thus they will try to pretend it is someting else.

[Spiffor]

*horrible memories of Rwanda*

[Odin]

My Plan:

1. Invade
2. split the country or give the Arab-dominated north to Egypt
3. Let the blacks in the south live in peace
4. Punish those behind the genocide
5. help the new nation in the south economically and finacially

A plan similar to this could also help in Nigeria if the muslims there get any big ideas (*cough* Sharia Law *cough*).