Western Sudan - what is to be done?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ramo
That the UN allowed Bakuva to fall into rebel hands doesn't make their peacekeeping forces useless.

Srebrenica makes a good start in that area though.

[lord of the mark]

bump

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
In rwanda the Hutu genocidaire thugs were driven off by the Tutsi forces from outside. In cambodia the Khmer Rouge were driven off by the Viet Namese Army. No credit to the West in either instance, but hardly a case of the genocidaires getting bored.

Only once those problems spilled over into neighboring countries. If you've got a civil war or flood of refugees or some other security threat coming into your own country, you'll likely do something about it. Meanwhile, plenty of killing will get done without interference, and as long as you don't spill over into your neighbor's laps, nobody really cares.

In somalia there was no organized genocide. Just a failed state and lots of interclan warfare and associated hunger.

So a clan based system of systematic theft of food relief from starving people of the wrong clans and tribes isn't genocide? Let's just let people starve by cutting off their food supplies, that'll be A-OK with everybody.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
canada calls on UNSC to act

evidence of summary executions of civilians

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nada_sudan_col

Maybe the UNSC members will get together and express their "grave concerns." That should be a real deterrent.

[GePap]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Only once those problems spilled over into neighboring countries. If you've got a civil war or flood of refugees or some other security threat coming into your own country, you'll likely do something about it. Meanwhile, plenty of killing will get done without interference, and as long as you don't spill over into your neighbor's laps, nobody really cares.

Well, the UN's role in Rwanda is even worse than this, as they were already involved in Rwanda due to the ongoing war, and cut back as the genocide got going.

So a clan based system of systematic theft of food relief from starving people of the wrong clans and tribes isn't genocide? Let's just let people starve by cutting off their food supplies, that'll be A-OK with everybody.

No, it isn't. Genocide has a definition, and somalia did not fit it. Just killing lots of people isn't genocide, just like every homicide isn't going to be the same as a regicide.

[MichaeltheGreat]

So explain to me how systematic plundering of food and medical supplies for certain tribal groups, by other tribal groups who are traditional enemies, does not apply?

The Somalis were a bit loose about it, so not everyone who died as a result of aid plundering and denial was in the targeted groups, but the intent included systematic killing of enemies who were defined as such by their tribal origin and clans.

[GePap]

It becomes an issue of intent sadly- are they doding this to make the other side give in to their tribes power? (sort of "strategic warfare", a low tech version of blockades and strategic bombings), or to wipe them out completely?

After all, a siege or blockade is the same thing, yet neither falls under the definition of genocide-unless what you aim to do is not make the otehr guy surrender, but to kill him off completely.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Well, when you have a bunch of starving people from the wrong tribe, and you show up and force them at gunpoint to load onto your trucks food aid that was just dropped off by relief organizations, it's pretty predictable what will happen. No, the UN or NGO's won't be back with another shipment, and no, these people won't suddenly evolve the ability to eat sand.

Intent seemed pretty clear to me. The UNISOM I and UNISOM II missions were just forbidden from engaging these *******s unless they attacked UN peacekeepers or UN sponsored relief organizations. Following them in your own trucks to steal the food the moment the relief organizations left the scene didn't count.