Rugby - Truck and Trailer!

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak

Freddie has just past a small landmark of getting 50 (or more runs) in eight consecutive tests. Amazing for an Englishman?

Excuse my asking but should that be 50 or more runs in each of eight consecutive tests?
Either way though ...


And I wish whichever of you lot who's wandering around the rugby sites posing as a Kiwi and posting stuff that's just, well, 'stupid' (for lack of a better word ), would stop it.

"That game was just stupid - it was the stupidest game ever. Two of the tries that South Africa scored should not have counted because the one that [Paulse] scored was not placed down - it was lost. And the one that was scored off the back of the scrum, the guy passed it forward - so that's just stupid.

"So yeah, it was absolutely stupid and i hate that ref - I think he didn't want NZ to win. Stupid ref. Well that's what I think of it, it was stupid, stupid, stupid. So yeah, my opinion is just that the game was stupid."

I'm guessing this person is trying to imply something about the game but for the life of me I just can't quite figure out what it may be.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak

I take it you are following the cricket and saw the Windies blow a good position to lose at Old Trafford and now fail to make something from three good early wickets at the Oval.

Yes, I saw the good start. Turned on the next night and they'd blown it. Typical.

Freddie has just past a small landmark of getting 50 (or more runs) in eight consecutive tests. Amazing for an Englishman?

Yes, against crap oppo.

A start for the Boks Finbar – i.e Wallabies to win by 4.5 or more. You will have to work hard to convince me it should be the other way around!

Okay, I'll have 10 on the Wallabies to win by 5 or more. Care to back the Boks?

[Havak]

Thank you for the Grammar correction Ravagon. You were right of course.

Mind you if Windies blew the last test what about this one – they had England at 321-7 and let them get to 470 all out – even Anderson got double figures of runs!

I'm guessing this person is trying to imply something about the game but for the life of me I just can't quite figure out what it may be.

Good lord that is funny stuff. It has to be an Aussie pretending to be Kiwi though I agree.

Like yourself I cannot quite grasp what it is they are implying…


We can only play what is put in front of us Finbar – and the only real quality side in World cricket is your mob who will we test ourselves against next summer – with predictable results I have no doubt.

I’ll take 10 the Boks on those grounds please as well.

[Havak]

Spare a thought for the diplomatic genius that is Matt Burke. Talking to the Australian media he had the following to say on his international retirement after tomorrow:

"Being involved in the Tri-Nations is something special and you want to play in the matches of the highest possible standard."

"You play the game to test yourself at the elite level, and there's nothing like playing a decider here."

"I'd rather go out on a stage like this than playing a game of lesser stature."

In that last sentence he was referring to the fact he would not be playing the autumn games up here. Way to go Matt - P*** off you new employers from the off and make sure the crowd will be nice and anti straight off.

I knew he was a Dill head from Lions days, I didn't realise he was certifiably stupid too!?

Did he really think this little brown nose piece for the Aussie media would not be reported here?

[finbar]

Oh well, if everyone up there considers a Newcastle -v- Worcester fixture of greater stature than a series-deciding Test match, so be it.

In the meantime, tonight, we do battle for 10 Civ Gold. Makes the Iraq war look like very small beer!

[Havak]

Any English premiership game is of greater stature than a tri-nations match surely.

It was a good game to watch but shall we say it was a little error ridden?

So the Boks are the champions and the ABs propped the table up - it's an amazing turn around. What price Henry to be sacked by Monday?

One thing I noticed Cannon needs his arse kicking - as does George for going at the ref rather than sorting the lad out. What possessed him to push Paddy on the line outs?

And just when you wanted Sharpe to keep his form didn't he go largely AWOL?

I look forward to your thoughts on the game Finbar!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Any English premiership game is of greater stature than a tri-nations match surely.

It was a good game to watch but shall we say it was a little error ridden?

One of the scrappiest, error-ridden Tests I've seen in years. Nerves on both sides obviously played a part early on, particularly for poor Rathbone, but there was no excuse for some of the ongoing sloppiness. Phil Waugh dropping the ball cold? Good grief!

One thing I noticed Cannon needs his arse kicking - as does George for going at the ref rather than sorting the lad out. What possessed him to push Paddy on the line outs?

The problem was that Cannon simply couldn't hear the lineout calls. The crowd noise was deafening. Even the ref told the TV ref to tell him through the ear piece when the final hooter was being sounded because he wouldn't be able to hear it over the crowd. That said, Cannon should have dealt with the problem after the first ocurrance. He should have got together with Plank - the lineout caller - before he went to the touchline to throw.

And just when you wanted Sharpe to keep his form didn't he go largely AWOL?

He and the rest of the forwards were AWOL, miles below what they'd done against the Boks, the first time, and the ABs.

I look forward to your thoughts on the game Finbar!

I was massively frustrated, swearing at the TV! The last 15 minutes of the first half, and the last ten minutes of the match aside, it's probably the worst the Wallabies have played since the ABs hammered us last season. As you observed, Sharpe - and the rest of the forwards - went AWOL. They were slow to the breakdown, letting the Boks either tie up the ball or even pilfer it. Baxter, at tighthead, was made to look stupid by the Ox. Thus, the 25 or so minutes referred to above aside, we were barely on the front foot. And on the rare occasions that we were, the unforced errors killed us. Eddie was furious after the match, and rightly so. Everything that had been done the right way for several weeks, was suddenly done the wrong way. You can't coach for that sort of thing.

And yet we came close to winning. Sure, they were two men down, but they were lucky they only lost Paulse for deliberate breakdown infringements. That we came close to winning is testament to how the Wallabies can play when they get it at least half right. It's also testament to the problems the Boks have. They would get to second or third phase, setting up something really threatening, only to lose the plot completely. And it happened too often to be an accident. They don't yet have an on-field general, evidenced by their replacement of the scrummy at half time.

Their first 20 minutes of the second half won them the match, even if the first try was sheer luck. Ultimately, while the win meant a trophy, and good luck to the Boks for winning it, I don't think it's a match that will be remembered for its standards. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[finbar]

The first of what hopefully not will be a series of postcards from abroad!

There were mixed feelings after my first competitive game for Toulouse, a 28-16 loss at Pau.

I'm playing full-back at the moment, but that may change. I enjoyed it, but was really disappointed to lose, we realise that as a team we were rusty.

It was a different style of rugby and I have a lot to learn about the way they play in France.

I need to get more involved as I didn't see a lot of the ball. It was a tight game, but it was also because I was playing the kind of game I was used to at home.

The Celtic League is a great competition, it compares to the Zurich Premiership and the French Championship, but the style of play is different.

There are a lot of strong teams here and Pau are not the toughest we are going to face.

The French sides treat their home ground as a fortress. The supporters are very vocal and will let their team know exactly how they are doing.

It's very important for a side to get the crowd going, then they can be worth a good 10-12 points per game.

My ankle's feeling fine after the injury I suffered in May. It swells up after training on the hard ground, but I get ice on it, the doctors are absolutely fabulous out here, and I'm always ready to go the next day.

I'm playing full-back at the moment, but it's going to be a long season and that may change.

The Toulouse players who toured with France in the summer - including their regular full-back Clement Poitrenaud - can't play for the first couple of matches in the Championship.

Toulouse like their players to be interchangeable and I think that's part of the reason they chose to bring me here.

I'm willing to play anywhere and at the moment I'm just glad to make the 22.

Off the pitch life is great, we have a beautiful house to enjoy and I'm mixing with all the boys in the team.

I'm getting by with the language, but a lot of my friends want to practice their English so when I try to speak French they stop me!

I'm desperate to learn more, though, because until I get there I'm still an outsider and I can't bring my personality out.

I'm big mates with Trevor Brennan and that's been ideal - he's good at French and has been here a long time.

When it comes to putting in my satellite TV or needing a fridge, Trevor knows the people to see.

I understand that my new haircut has been creating a bit of interest, so I thought I'd better clear up what that was all about...

When you play your first game for Toulouse they shave your head as an initiation, but I thought that would be a bit boring.

I decided to take the mick out of our forwards coach Serge Lairle who's bald on top and has hair at the back and sides - I even grew a moustache like his!

Coming to one of the top teams in Europe it was just good to realise that rugby's rugby and off the field the Toulouse boys are just the same as at my hometown club of Pencoed.

Next time I need a new fridge or satellite TV, remind me to get Trevor around. And The Celtic League compares to the Zurich Premiership and the French Championship? Will someone please take to this idiot Taffy's writing hand with a meat cleaver?

[Havak]

That was a truly fantastic game don’t you think? But enough of England sealing a 4-0 whitewash over the Windies lets talk about rugby instead.

As I have said I really enjoyed the game – although both teams looked nervous throughout as you say Finbar. The occasion clearly got to them. Surprising for such a seasoned Wallaby outfit – usually with ice cold nerves.

There was however another disaster on Saturday. Tigers traditionally do not win the pre-season friendlies they have. They ruined this record with a 36-0 away win over Edinburgh. Both sides were under strength but the highlight has to be a hat trick for young Ellis – he must be right in the frame for the autumn internationals.

He should have got together with Plank - the lineout caller - before he went to the touchline to throw.

That would have been logical – so are we surprised he didn’t?

He and the rest of the forwards were AWOL, miles below what they'd done against the Boks, the first time, and the ABs.

Even with an inexperienced tight head the Boks worked your front row very hard. Although their loose forwards were somewhat muted compared to earlier games? A strange game all around.

Ultimately, while the win meant a trophy, and good luck to the Boks for winning it, I don't think it's a match that will be remembered for its standards. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I think everything you said was pretty much spot on. That wasn’t the Wallabies that played England in June. And the Boks enjoyed considerable good fortune.

But that doesn’t stop me asking what it is like to support the second best side in the SH?

And I can’t believe the ABs are now the third best down there. I’m just using the same criteria you applied to the 6N (when you were in fact far too generous to England when you said third best).

Will someone please take to this idiot Taffy's writing hand with a meat cleaver?

How sad would it be if it was already ghost written?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
That was a truly fantastic game don’t you think? But enough of England sealing a 4-0 whitewash over the Windies lets talk about rugby instead.

And I gather we're currently in the land of Edam and windmills playing yet another meaningless one-day festival.

As I have said I really enjoyed the game – although both teams looked nervous throughout as you say Finbar. The occasion clearly got to them. Surprising for such a seasoned Wallaby outfit – usually with ice cold nerves.

We are, as is well known, expert at shooting ourselves in the collective adidases (or Nikes, or whatever they wear) at the most inappropriate times. We did it again. Eddie is absolutely spewing. And with very good reason.

There was however another disaster on Saturday. Tigers traditionally do not win the pre-season friendlies they have. They ruined this record with a 36-0 away win over Edinburgh.

If you traditionally lose the friendlies, that means you must've lost them last season. The prelude to a disastrous season. So, this season, a win in a friendly could mean ... no, I can't bring myself to type it ...

Even with an inexperienced tight head the Boks worked your front row very hard. Although their loose forwards were somewhat muted compared to earlier games? A strange game all around.

Well, Al Baxter was made to look stupid and everything flowed from there. Their loosies were down on their usual form, but they were still more effective than ours, particularly at the breakdown, and that's where we lost it. We had phase after phase of snail's-pace ball - before we coughed it up anyway. The key to our two bursts of good rugby - twenty minutes before half time, and the last ten minutes - was getting quick ball. There just wasn't enough of it. And the Boks need much better organisation in attack if they're going to progress. Just about every third phase or fourth phase saw a fat forward standing where he shouldn't have been.

But that doesn’t stop me asking what it is like to support the second best side in the SH?

Angry. We're the best by a bit of a margin. One match aside. Actually, I think I read somewhere that, despite losing on Saturday, we're - somehow - ranked first in the world. I don't know which ranking it was. Homer Simpson got it right - "stupid rankings!".

And I can’t believe the ABs are now the third best down there. I’m just using the same criteria you applied to the 6N (when you were in fact far too generous to England when you said third best).

Put it this way, I'd rather be Jake White or Eddie (once he calms down) than G. Henry at the moment.

How sad would it be if it was already ghost written?

The man's a complete and utter moron. It reads like a prep school Grade 6 "What I Did On My Holidays" presentation.

[Havak]

And I gather we're currently in the land of Edam and windmills playing yet another meaningless one-day festival.

Yes indeed. With India and Pakistan. Can’t quite fathom the choice of venue myself?

Eddie is absolutely spewing. And with very good reason.

Heads to roll do you think? Sacrificial lambs? Cannon, Baxter and Dunning to take a fall onto their swords?

So, this season, a win in a friendly could mean ... no, I can't bring myself to type it ...

Don’t worry – last season we only lost one of the warm up games for the first time I can remember. If you follow through the logical correlation you can understand why I am hoping Cardiff beat us on Saturday.

Only two friendlies this year – normally we would play three.

Just about every third phase or fourth phase saw a fat forward standing where he shouldn't have been.

On the ball most of the time.

I was impressed, when you got quick ball, at how threatening Tuqiri proved. The Bok rush defence was wide open to his muscular style of counter attack I felt. Turning into a great rugger player that lad. As for Wendell though – fish out of water still most of the time.

Mortlock by the way was clearly a marked man – he suffered some huge ‘challenges’ from the Boks that at times harked back to a now largely abandoned style…

I don't know which ranking it was. Homer Simpson got it right - "stupid rankings!".

Just to make you feel better I think I agree. The best international rugby I have seen this year has been from the Wallabies I think. You probably are worth the number one tag – accepting the fact that such things are largely meaningless of course.

It could be a tough autumn tour though – You are sandwiching France between training runs against Scotland and then ending up walloping us at HQ. Four tests in four weeks is a big ask of your boys.

We should make a better showing – for all his faults Clive has apparently been reading the riot act and certain players have been told to buck up – but no one knows who (I am tempted to say all of them).

Put it this way, I'd rather be Jake White or Eddie (once he calms down) than G. Henry at the moment.

He is a man under pressure. Part of me is surprised he has not been sacked yet. But I feel sorry for him in a way – the lack of flexibility is entirely his fault of course but the stand off problem is not. What he needs is an amalgam of Mouth and Carlos so he has a stand off that can attack, defend and bring control to a game all in one go.

The man's a complete and utter moron. It reads like a prep school Grade 6 "What I Did On My Holidays" presentation.

The man is a valleys boy – what did you expect?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Yes indeed. With India and Pakistan. Can’t quite fathom the choice of venue myself?

Some asinine ICC take-the-game-to-the-cricketing-colonies scheme, probably. For many years, touring Australian sides played a match there on the their way to - or home from - England. Jack Potter, an early 60s very fine Victorian batsman who wasn't quite up to Test standard, played in one of the matches and suffered the indignity of a fractured skull.

Heads to roll do you think? Sacrificial lambs? Cannon, Baxter and Dunning to take a fall onto their swords?

No, but John Roe will be looked at as a starting player. That's the second or third time he's come off the bench and made an impact. Qualified doctor, very rugged #8 or flanker, and can jump in the lineout. He and Chris Latham were Queensland's best by a mile in S12 this season.

I was impressed, when you got quick ball, at how threatening Tuqiri proved. The Bok rush defence was wide open to his muscular style of counter attack I felt. Turning into a great rugger player that lad. As for Wendell though – fish out of water still most of the time.

Yes, Tuquiri is learning all the time. This is still really only his second year of rugby. What I like about him - apart from his speed, strength and skills - is that, as he gains more experience, he's taking the initiative, coming off his wing and putting himself into the game. He has the brain for the game that Wendell clearly lacks. Matt Rogers will also be back for the NH tour, so he will add to the penetration, too.

Mortlock by the way was clearly a marked man – he suffered some huge ‘challenges’ from the Boks that at times harked back to a now largely abandoned style…

Yep. He was very quiet early, but once he got some of the ball they were obviously after him. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be standing in the way of one of his charges.

Just to make you feel better I think I agree. The best international rugby I have seen this year has been from the Wallabies I think. You probably are worth the number one tag – accepting the fact that such things are largely meaningless of course.

But of course! The problem is, we can produce stinkers like last Saturday.

It could be a tough autumn tour though – You are sandwiching France between training runs against Scotland and then ending up walloping us at HQ. Four tests in four weeks is a big ask of your boys.

Yes, but, on the other hand, I don't think we're getting any top level rugby between now and then. Our club rugby is hardly demanding. So there can't be any real end-of-season tiredness excuses. And we're notorious for starting campaigns slowly. We might end up needing the work outs against the Scots.

We should make a better showing – for all his faults Clive has apparently been reading the riot act and certain players have been told to buck up – but no one knows who (I am tempted to say all of them).

Mmmm. Let's see who he selects. Let's see if he's prepared to flick the average players who were lifted beyond their true levels by J****'s leadership. Because without that leadership, they're never going to be any better than average. Let's see if he can find some young talent that promises to be much better than average, even if it takes a couple of seasons.

He is a man under pressure. Part of me is surprised he has not been sacked yet. But I feel sorry for him in a way – the lack of flexibility is entirely his fault of course but the stand off problem is not. What he needs is an amalgam of Mouth and Carlos so he has a stand off that can attack, defend and bring control to a game all in one go.

They wouldn't sack him yet. Not in a fit. And I'd've thought his first priority was to abandon the silly flat backline and give his runners the room to do what they do best - cut defences to ribbons. The flat backline might work against crap defence - no names, no packdrill, you skinny English winger! - but good defence will kill them more often than not.

The man is a valleys boy – what did you expect?

I can see him arm-in-arm with Tamerlin crooning "Men of Harlech".

[Havak]

Some asinine ICC take-the-game-to-the-cricketing-colonies scheme, probably

It was a similar misguided policy that led to that whole ashes debacle.

Holland do have a side – but like Ireland and Scotland it is a sub-county standard outfit. As with Rugby it has no chance of breaking the hold S***** has on the Dutch hearts and minds.

And I bet Jack Potter was happy he made the trip?

Do you think Roe will oust Lyons – the latter was also extremely quiet last weekend?

There are a lot of names in your tour squad that I know nothing about – Croft, Fitter, Mathison, Mitchell and Shepherd for starters. Is Eddie blooding youth?

Matt Rogers will also be back for the NH tour, so he will add to the penetration, too.

Good news for the Wallabies – not so good for us. His old nemesis (and rib breaker) Lewsey will be lucky to make the side after the summer.

Frankly, I wouldn't want to be standing in the way of one of his charges.

I’ve had the same thought myself.

The problem is, we can produce stinkers like last Saturday.

As long as the next one is saved for 27th November.

And we're notorious for starting campaigns slowly. We might end up needing the work outs against the Scots.

In theory they, like the English, should be at their peak in the Autumn. Match fit but not yet fatigued by the season. Not that I expect any shocks from the Scots – some brave defence followed by a late collapse I would expect.

Let's see if he can find some young talent that promises to be much better than average, even if it takes a couple of seasons.

Well this is what worries me frankly. Some of the Academy lads have been ready for the step up for a while now. I am obviously biased towards the Tigers lads who are ready – Ellis, Smith and Deacon are certainly ready and Skinner should be by next spring – but there are others such as Brown and Forester (if fit) from Glaws *Spit*

But Clive is stubborn – in all likelihood Dally will skipper and the same hopeless mob who failed down south will be thrown back in en masse. The only upside is even he could not ignore another two losses to SH opposition.

They wouldn't sack him yet. Not in a fit

Are you absolutely sure?

How about if Italy turn them over?
Lets see if he abandons the flat backline. It does mean admitting he got it wrong you know. He is not known for that kind of humility.

I can see him arm-in-arm with Tamerlin crooning "Men of Harlech".

As with Flower of Scotland this hymn is notable for the fact it is mainly about killing the English in as large volumes as possible. Most suitable for rugger.

“Smite with will their savage band Nor think of e'er retreating:
But with a firm unflinching hand, In blood quench ev'ry burning brand,
And for each roof tree cast away A Saxon life shall pay.”

This is clearly inciting the Welsh defence to get red carded quickly?

[Havak]

Forgot to say I notice Brad Thorn is returning to League now the ABs have dumped him. No surprises there.

And in a very NZRU like move the RFU disciplinary officer has completely cleared Sir Clive for the post match comments about Williams and Dillheadson after the Shaw sending off debacle saying there is "no case to answer".

He has however reminded coaching staff of the IRB code of conduct.

It's clear from what they said that they thought Steve Tew over reacted in his calls for discplinary action.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Holland do have a side – but like Ireland and Scotland it is a sub-county standard outfit. As with Rugby it has no chance of breaking the hold S***** has on the Dutch hearts and minds.

Stupid lowlanders! And I can say without causing offence because I'm slagging my forefathers!

Do you think Roe will oust Lyons – the latter was also extremely quiet last weekend?

Yes, he was, but he wasn't the only one. Roe isn't the giant frame that Lyons is and, as a consequence, he's probably more versatile. The thing is, Lyons, who had a fairly ordinary S12 season, repaid Eddie's loyalty by turning in some terrific games prior to last Saturday. So one poor game won't see him sacked. Roe will probably remain back up #8, capable also of playing as a flanker.

There are a lot of names in your tour squad that I know nothing about – Croft, Fitter, Mathison, Mitchell and Shepherd for starters. Is Eddie blooding youth?

Yes, although it's the training squad. The tour squad will be selected from it. David Croft has been around for a while. He's another #8/flanker who has been on the Wallaby bench a few times. Started a World Cup match or two, from memory. Fitter and Mathison are baby props. The search goes on. Mitchell and Shepherd were U-21 Wallabies earlier this year. Mitchell was skipper. Both enormously talented. Mitchell can play anywhere in the backline, had a couple of outstanding games for the Reds this season. Shepherd's a winger/full back, took over full back for the Waratahs when Matt Rogers was injured. He's one of those young, very quick kids with all the skills and tons of confidence. The kind who make you feel very old just looking at them. Anyway, as I've said before, we have no shortage of young backline talent. We have it coming out our ears. Front rowers remain a different matter!

But Clive is stubborn – in all likelihood Dally will skipper and the same hopeless mob who failed down south will be thrown back in en masse. The only upside is even he could not ignore another two losses to SH opposition.

A-ha! And the hierarchy couldn't ignore them either. Ta-ta Clive!

Are you absolutely sure?

How about if Italy turn them over?

Oh, if he bombs out on the NH tour, that's a different matter. But, at the moment, he's safe. I must check out some of the Kiwi rugby media online, see what's being said.

“Smite with will their savage band Nor think of e'er retreating:
But with a firm unflinching hand, In blood quench ev'ry burning brand,
And for each roof tree cast away A Saxon life shall pay.”

That's it. If I close my eyes I can hear Tamerlin's light tenor rippling through the ether.