Is Islam a form of Fascism?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Emperor Bush salutes your proposal

[GePap]

With Sandmand and Drake (strange pair)-Islam is a universalistic faith that does not put much stock in nationality-all muslims supposedly are connected by faith, not nation. That simple fact alone means NO, Islam is not a form of fascism.

[Arrian]

Lots of replies to such a ridiculous thread title. Must be a slow day.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

No of course not.

For one thing Islam is way too diverse - the political and social attitudes that charecterize Wahabism are different from those of Shiism or Sufism, or liberalizing trends.

Western fascism influenced SOME movements within Islam from the 1930's on. Some secularist movements like Baathism were more overtly similar to fascism, though some are reluctant to call Baathism fascism because of it social progressivism - theres much debate about this. Baathism, though arguably a fascist movement within the islamic world, is not a form of Islamism.

The form of Islamism associated most strongly with Western Fascism is the anti-Western derivation of Wahabism originating with Sayed Qutb. Qutb in turn influenced Ayman al Zawahiri, chief ideologist for Al Qaeeda. Some would deny that even this ideology is a form of fascism, since they focus on nationalism as a key marker of fascism. Paul Berman in "Liberalisma and Terror" discusses the possibility of fascism taking different forms in different cultures. He especially focuses on how Francoism took a more religious, and more traditionalist form than German or Italian fascism. He then discussed how Qutbist Jihadism is the form that fascism takes within a religious Muslim culture.

I recommend that anyone interested in this topic read Bermans "Liberalism and Terror"

[Whaleboy]

What does Berman conclude with his title re liberalism and terror?

[lord of the mark]

His thesis is that terrorism is the negation of liberalism, and that the fulfillment of liberalism requires a muscular stance against BOTH AQ style Islamism, and against Baathism. That unfortunately too many liberals dont recognize this, but OTOH, the current Bush admin, is not fighting the WOT in the liberal way it must be fought - IE not enough emphasis on nation building and democracy promotion.

Hes hawkish, including pro- invasion of Iraq, but not pro-Bush, and definitely pro-liberal (actually hes more or less a democratic socialist, so hes using liberal in a particular sense). Very well written, very erudite.


Kinda like Hitchens, but calmer. And more pro-Israel than Hitchens - though not pro-Likud.

Bermans book described at Amazon

Berman puts his leftist credentials (he's a member of the editorial board of Dissent) on the line by critiquing the left while presenting a liberal rationale for the war on terror, joining a discourse that has been dominated by conservatives. The most original aspect of his analysis is to categorize Islamism as a totalitarian reaction against Western liberalism in a class with Nazism and communism; drawing on the ideas of Camus in The Rebel, Berman delineates how all three movements descended from utopian visions (in the case of Islamism, the restoration of a pure seventh-century Islam) into irrational cults of death. He illustrates this progression through a nuanced analysis of the writings of a leading Islamist thinker, Sayyid Qutb, ending with some chilling quotations from other Islamists, e.g., "History does not write its lines except with blood," the blood being that of Islam's martyrs (such as suicide bombers) as well as of their enemies, Zionists and Crusaders (i.e., Jews and Christians). Berman then launches into his most provocative chapter, and the one he will probably be most criticized for in politically correct journals: a scathing attack on leftist intellectuals, such as Noam Chomsky, who have applauded terrorism and tried to explain it as a rational response to oppression. Berman exhorts readers to accept that, on the contrary, Islamism is a "pathological mass political movement" that is "drunk on the idea of slaughter." A former MacArthur fellow and a contributing editor to the New Republic, Berman offers an argument that will be welcomed by disaffected progressives looking for a new analysis of today's world.

[Whaleboy]

Looks interesting, I doubt I'd agree with him but seems to have an interesting argument

[Saint Marcus]

Let's see...

hallmarks for fascism:

*** Nationalism and super-patriotism with a sense of historic mission. - CHECK

*** Aggressive militarism even to the extent of glorifying war as good for the national or individual spirit. - CHECK

*** Use of violence or threats of violence to impose views on others - CHECK

*** Authoritarian reliance on a leader or elite not constitutionally responsible to an electorate. - CHECK

*** Cult of personality around a charismatic leader. - UNSURE (yes wrt terrorist groups such as Hamas and Al Qaida, no wrt Iran or Sudan).

*** Reaction against the values of Modernism, usually with emotional attacks against both liberalism and communism. - CHECK

*** Exhortations for the homogeneous masses of common folk to join voluntarily in a heroic mission_often metaphysical and romanticized in character. - CHECK

*** Dehumanization and scapegoating of the enemy_seeing the enemy as an inferior or subhuman force, perhaps involved in a conspiracy that justifies eradicating them. - CHECK

*** The self image of being a superior form of social organization beyond socialism, capitalism and democracy. - UNSURE (islam does consider itself superior to socialism/capitalism/democracy, but views itself not "beyond" them, but before them. Sorta a "honourable barbarian" thing. Going back to their roots, instead of going beyond the current paradigms)

*** Elements of national socialist ideological roots, for example, ostensible support for the industrial working class or farmers; but ultimately, the forging of an alliance with an elite sector of society. - CHECK

*** Abandonment of any consistent ideology in a drive for state power. - NO CHECK (they're mostly purists, after all)

Most fit, it seems...

[Panag]

Re: Is Islam a form of Fascism?

Originally posted by problem_child
Is Islam a form of Fascism?

Mussolini, the creator of fascism, defined it in these terms

'Everything within the State, Nothing outside the State, Nothing against the State'

Muslims have a similar attitude to Islam, for a good muslim

Everything must be within Islam, Nothing can be outside of Islam, Nothing can be against Islam.

Considering Sharia law, where Islam and State become one in the Law of the Land, I have to wonder, what argument can make the term Islamic Fascism a nonsense?

hi ,

fascism is a to good thing to be compared with it .....

sharia law ? that just s*cks , taking a persons hand for the theft of a 2 cent item , .... no way that can be considered to be *law*

have a nice day

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Is capitalism a form of fascism? A fair and balanced review.

Yes.

But it's better than the alternatives.

[Thorn]

ISLAM IS FUNDAMENTALISM NOT FASCISM!

[GePap]

I do view fascism as inherently nationalistic and rightfully so. Simply a rejection of liberalism does not make something fascist. Maybe Berman should, I don;t know, coin a new term? That is possible.

[Al B. Sure!]

Pan-Arabism was the middle eastern-flavoured fascism predominate a few decades ago. Islamism was opposed to pan-arabism from the start and has, due to pan-arabism's failings, replaced it as the extreme idealogy of the arab world.

pan-arabism is the fascist one... not islamism.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Thorn
Fascism requires a central leader "hero figure," to exist, Islam has no central leader and no central state....

Many islamic countries are still monarchies where the king is a ruler of divine right.

therefore it cannot be a form of fascism. It would be a form of Theocracy where the real leader is god and those who represent his wishes on earth.

I'm in an Internet café, but that's about it. Islam is certainly not fascist. At most, some islamic countries have a tendency towards fascism, but that isn't anything intrinsic to Islam, as much as Catholicism is not.

[Al B. Sure!]

Saint Marcus:

*** Nationalism and super-patriotism with a sense of historic mission. - CHECK

how in god's name is this a check? there is no nationalism in any islamic terrorist organization. Al Qaeda is made up of Tunisians, Algerians, Egyptians, Saudis, Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, Afghans, Chechnyans, Indonesians, Malaysians, etc. there's no currents of nationalism in islamism.