Reagan's Legacy - How will he be remembered?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
He also brought back confidence to America. To many in the late 70s it looked like the American century was over. Reagan brought it all back. He made people love their country and initiated 'Morning in America'.

Can someone explain me briefly why there was so little confidence of Americans in their own country before Reagan "brought it all back"? Was is still related to Vietnam? But that was years ago when Reagan became president (1981 IIRC) ....I mean it can't just be the Iran thing, hm?

[The Mad Monk]

Neither one is used much -- how often do you see either one?

Besides, Kennedy owns that half-dollar.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by BeBro


Can someone explain me briefly why there was so little confidence of Americans in their own country before Reagan "brought it all back"? Was is still related to Vietnam? But that was years ago when Reagan became president (1981 IIRC) ....I mean it can't just be the Iran thing, hm?

It was VietNam, it was Iran, and in between it was stagflation, gaslines, Watergate, the energy crises, bankrupt cities, mafia in the unions, disco, Skylab falling, an unelected president best known for falling down a lot, and an elected president best known (at the time) for an alcoholic brother with his own brand of beer, and being attacked by a rabbit.

[Drake Tungsten]

Besides, Kennedy owns that half-dollar.

He isn't really that deserving of it, however, especially when viewed in the light of the achievements of the other presidents featured on our coins. Replacing Kennedy with Reagan is a much better solution in my mind than replacing FDR, who certainly deserves his spot on the dime.

[The Mad Monk]

No, I mean he owns that half dollar.

You forget how many Kennedys remain in high government.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by BeBro
Can someone explain me briefly why there was so little confidence of Americans in their own country before Reagan "brought it all back"?

The Carter Admin, IIRC.

[Drake Tungsten]

No, I mean he owns that half dollar.

You forget how many Kennedys remain in high government.

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by johncmcleod


China is really a merge of capitalism and communism. Under Mao there certainly would be no sweatshops, however, there certainly would be a lot of starving people. I think the Sandistas also would have gotten rid of the sweatshop labor.

The point is Reagan murdered thousands of people through his contras in Nicaragua, against international law. And when the World Court ordered him to pay Nicaragua back reparations, he refused to.

He also backed terrorist wars in Guatemala and El Salvador. Other terrorist organizations he backed include UNITA and Renamo terrorists, who were responsible for the deaths of one and a half million people.

He also supported the coup that put the Baathists into power, supplied and supported Saddam Hussein and allowed US companies to sell him chemicals that enabled him to build chemical weapons.

He also supported the Indonesian occupation of East Timor, probably the worst act of genocide since the holocaust.

And of course there was the whole Iran contras thing.

America needed Reagan though. Americans had normally been proud of America, but then Vietnam happened. For the first time Americans watched as their leaders imperialistic policies ruined millions of lives. It crushed them. It was the first time they'd seen an American leader do something terrible. Americans were feeling down. Then Reagan came in and with his excellent public speaking skills convinced the American people to become nationalistic again and ignore the wrong our leaders had done. Americans again became proud of the country and felt good about being American. And the US was able to help murder thousands, possibly millions without the pesky questioning from the public.

Go America!

[GePap]

To return to "he brought back confidence"-the Gipper wasa great salesman-he used lofty words about how good America was, which was something Americans wanted to hear after Watergate and then Jimmy carter's precidency. You hear that again and again, here as well, and why I said the "Gipper" image dominates. BUT THAT WAS JUST IMAGERY. Bringing back confidence is important- but policy is important, facts on the ground, as opposed to words on the screen matter. And it was with policy on the gorund that I think reagan failed.

He spoke about cutting government-under him government got bigger, thought all programs to help the poor got screwed one way or the other. He innitiated the "war on drugs"< and by then end of his term, the issue was worse than ever. He spoke about spreading democracy, while criminally supporting terrorist in nicaragua, dictatorships thorugh Latin America and Asia and Africa (he was a bit slow to get into the Oust Marco movement, he never took a hard line vs. Apartheid SA), in his anti-communist crusade he stood aside as the seeds of todays Islamicism were sowed in the name of anti-communism. He cut taxes, and left the treasury worst of than when he begun. Did little to build on Carters achievements at Camp David when it came to ME peace.

I have already said I do not think he "won" the cold war-the Soviet union fell thanks to internal dynamics that begun to gather speed long before he became president. BUt his actual successes were in that field-the few I think he had. In his first term he challenged the more aggressive Soviet FP that begun in the late '70s. In doing so, he helped to weaken those within the SU who pushjed for that policy, which were the hardliners. This helped Gorbachev come into power. Then once this happened, Reagan, for all his evil empire schtick, dealt with the soviets and signed massive cuts in nuclear stockpiles. So if Reagan deserves any praise it is for helping the "moderates" come into power in the SU. NOw, the moderates failed in their agenda, which is why the SU fell apart, though there was little they could do.

So, what did Ronnid do, really? Well, I think he built a solid Potemkin village that the American people bought, and for that, they are greatful to him. Unfortunitelly, we are still dealing with the mess behind the facade he never dealt with, or let get out of hand.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
So, how long until we get Reagan on a coin? I suggest the fifty cent piece.

Put him on the three dollar bill.

I am not sorry he died. I'm not tickled either. But I have little to no respect for him.

[The Mad Monk]

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Remarks at the Brandenburg Gate
West Berlin, Germany
June 12, 1987

This speech was delivered to the people of West Berlin, yet it was also audible on the East side of the Berlin wall.
2,703 words

Thank you very much.

Chancellor Kohl, Governing Mayor Diepgen, ladies and gentlemen: Twenty-four years ago, President John F. Kennedy visited Berlin, speaking to the people of this city and the world at the City Hall. Well, since then two other presidents have come, each in his turn, to Berlin. And today I, myself, make my second visit to your city.

We come to Berlin, we American presidents, because it's our duty to speak, in this place, of freedom. But I must confess, we're drawn here by other things as well: by the feeling of history in this city, more than 500 years older than our own nation; by the beauty of the Grunewald and the Tiergarten; most of all, by your courage and determination. Perhaps the composer Paul Lincke understood something about American presidents. You see, like so many presidents before me, I come here today because wherever I go, whatever I do: Ich hab noch einen Koffer in Berlin. [I still have a suitcase in Berlin.]

Our gathering today is being broadcast throughout Western Europe and North America. I understand that it is being seen and heard as well in the East. To those listening throughout Eastern Europe, a special word: Although I cannot be with you, I address my remarks to you just as surely as to those standing here before me. For I join you, as I join your fellow countrymen in the West, in this firm, this unalterable belief: Es gibt nur ein Berlin. [There is only one Berlin.]

Behind me stands a wall that encircles the free sectors of this city, part of a vast system of barriers that divides the entire continent of Europe. From the Baltic, south, those barriers cut across Germany in a gash of barbed wire, concrete, dog runs, and guard towers. Farther south, there may be no visible, no obvious wall. But there remain armed guards and checkpoints all the same--still a restriction on the right to travel, still an instrument to impose upon ordinary men and women the will of a totalitarian state. Yet it is here in Berlin where the wall emerges most clearly; here, cutting across your city, where the news photo and the television screen have imprinted this brutal division of a continent upon the mind of the world. Standing before the Brandenburg Gate, every man is a German, separated from his fellow men. Every man is a Berliner, forced to look upon a scar.

President von Weizsacker has said, "The German question is open as long as the Brandenburg Gate is closed." Today I say: As long as the gate is closed, as long as this scar of a wall is permitted to stand, it is not the German question alone that remains open, but the question of freedom for all mankind. Yet I do not come here to lament. For I find in Berlin a message of hope, even in the shadow of this wall, a message of triumph.

In this season of spring in 1945, the people of Berlin emerged from their air-raid shelters to find devastation. Thousands of miles away, the people of the United States reached out to help. And in 1947 Secretary of State--as you've been told--George Marshall announced the creation of what would become known as the Marshall Plan. Speaking precisely 40 years ago this month, he said: "Our policy is directed not against any country or doctrine, but against hunger, poverty, desperation, and chaos."

In the Reichstag a few moments ago, I saw a display commemorating this 40th anniversary of the Marshall Plan. I was struck by the sign on a burnt-out, gutted structure that was being rebuilt. I understand that Berliners of my own generation can remember seeing signs like it dotted throughout the western sectors of the city. The sign read simply: "The Marshall Plan is helping here to strengthen the free world." A strong, free world in the West, that dream became real. Japan rose from ruin to become an economic giant. Italy, France, Belgium--virtually every nation in Western Europe saw political and economic rebirth; the European Community was founded.

In West Germany and here in Berlin, there took place an economic miracle, the Wirtschaftswunder. Adenauer, Erhard, Reuter, and other leaders understood the practical importance of liberty--that just as truth can flourish only when the journalist is given freedom of speech, so prosperity can come about only when the farmer and businessman enjoy economic freedom. The German leaders reduced tariffs, expanded free trade, lowered taxes. From 1950 to 1960 alone, the standard of living in West Germany and Berlin doubled.

Where four decades ago there was rubble, today in West Berlin there is the greatest industrial output of any city in Germany--busy office blocks, fine homes and apartments, proud avenues, and the spreading lawns of parkland. Where a city's culture seemed to have been destroyed, today there are two great universities, orchestras and an opera, countless theaters, and museums. Where there was want, today there's abundance--food, clothing, automobiles--the wonderful goods of the Ku'damm. From devastation, from utter ruin, you Berliners have, in freedom, rebuilt a city that once again ranks as one of the greatest on earth. The Soviets may have had other plans. But my friends, there were a few things the Soviets didn't count on--Berliner Herz, Berliner Humor, ja, und Berliner Schnauze. [Berliner heart, Berliner humor, yes, and a Berliner Schnauze.]

In the 1950s, Khrushchev predicted: "We will bury you." But in the West today, we see a free world that has achieved a level of prosperity and well-being unprecedented in all human history. In the Communist world, we see failure, technological backwardness, declining standards of health, even want of the most basic kind--too little food. Even today, the Soviet Union still cannot feed itself. After these four decades, then, there stands before the entire world one great and inescapable conclusion: Freedom leads to prosperity. Freedom replaces the ancient hatreds among the nations with comity and peace. Freedom is the victor.

And now the Soviets themselves may, in a limited way, be coming to understand the importance of freedom. We hear much from Moscow about a new policy of reform and openness. Some political prisoners have been released. Certain foreign news broadcasts are no longer being jammed. Some economic enterprises have been permitted to operate with greater freedom from state control.

Are these the beginnings of profound changes in the Soviet state? Or are they token gestures, intended to raise false hopes in the West, or to strengthen the Soviet system without changing it? We welcome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!

I understand the fear of war and the pain of division that afflict this continent-- and I pledge to you my country's efforts to help overcome these burdens. To be sure, we in the West must resist Soviet expansion. So we must maintain defenses of unassailable strength. Yet we seek peace; so we must strive to reduce arms on both sides.

Beginning 10 years ago, the Soviets challenged the Western alliance with a grave new threat, hundreds of new and more deadly SS-20 nuclear missiles, capable of striking every capital in Europe. The Western alliance responded by committing itself to a counter-deployment unless the Soviets agreed to negotiate a better solution; namely, the elimination of such weapons on both sides. For many months, the Soviets refused to bargain in earnestness. As the alliance, in turn, prepared to go forward with its counter-deployment, there were difficult days--days of protests like those during my 1982 visit to this city--and the Soviets later walked away from the table.

But through it all, the alliance held firm. And I invite those who protested then-- I invite those who protest today--to mark this fact: Because we remained strong, the Soviets came back to the table. And because we remained strong, today we have within reach the possibility, not merely of limiting the growth of arms, but of eliminating, for the first time, an entire class of nuclear weapons from the face of the earth.

As I speak, NATO ministers are meeting in Iceland to review the progress of our proposals for eliminating these weapons. At the talks in Geneva, we have also proposed deep cuts in strategic offensive weapons. And the Western allies have likewise made far-reaching proposals to reduce the danger of conventional war and to place a total ban on chemical weapons.

While we pursue these arms reductions, I pledge to you that we will maintain the capacity to deter Soviet aggression at any level at which it might occur. And in cooperation with many of our allies, the United States is pursuing the Strategic Defense Initiative--research to base deterrence not on the threat of offensive retaliation, but on defenses that truly defend; on systems, in short, that will not target populations, but shield them. By these means we seek to increase the safety of Europe and all the world. But we must remember a crucial fact: East and West do not mistrust each other because we are armed; we are armed because we mistrust each other. And our differences are not about weapons but about liberty. When President Kennedy spoke at the City Hall those 24 years ago, freedom was encircled, Berlin was under siege. And today, despite all the pressures upon this city, Berlin stands secure in its liberty. And freedom itself is transforming the globe.

In the Philippines, in South and Central America, democracy has been given a rebirth. Throughout the Pacific, free markets are working miracle after miracle of economic growth. In the industrialized nations, a technological revolution is taking place--a revolution marked by rapid, dramatic advances in computers and telecommunications.

In Europe, only one nation and those it controls refuse to join the community of freedom. Yet in this age of redoubled economic growth, of information and innovation, the Soviet Union faces a choice: It must make fundamental changes, or it will become obsolete.

Today thus represents a moment of hope. We in the West stand ready to cooperate with the East to promote true openness, to break down barriers that separate people, to create a safe, freer world. And surely there is no better place than Berlin, the meeting place of East and West, to make a start. Free people of Berlin: Today, as in the past, the United States stands for the strict observance and full implementation of all parts of the Four Power Agreement of 1971. Let us use this occasion, the 750th anniversary of this city, to usher in a new era, to seek a still fuller, richer life for the Berlin of the future. Together, let us maintain and develop the ties between the Federal Republic and the Western sectors of Berlin, which is permitted by the 1971 agreement.

And I invite Mr. Gorbachev: Let us work to bring the Eastern and Western parts of the city closer together, so that all the inhabitants of all Berlin can enjoy the benefits that come with life in one of the great cities of the world.

To open Berlin still further to all Europe, East and West, let us expand the vital air access to this city, finding ways of making commercial air service to Berlin more convenient, more comfortable, and more economical. We look to the day when West Berlin can become one of the chief aviation hubs in all central Europe.

With our French and British partners, the United States is prepared to help bring international meetings to Berlin. It would be only fitting for Berlin to serve as the site of United Nations meetings, or world conferences on human rights and arms control or other issues that call for international cooperation.

There is no better way to establish hope for the future than to enlighten young minds, and we would be honored to sponsor summer youth exchanges, cultural events, and other programs for young Berliners from the East. Our French and British friends, I'm certain, will do the same. And it's my hope that an authority can be found in East Berlin to sponsor visits from young people of the Western sectors.

One final proposal, one close to my heart: Sport represents a source of enjoyment and ennoblement, and you may have noted that the Republic of Korea--South Korea--has offered to permit certain events of the 1988 Olympics to take place in the North. International sports competitions of all kinds could take place in both parts of this city. And what better way to demonstrate to the world the openness of this city than to offer in some future year to hold the Olympic games here in Berlin, East and West? In these four decades, as I have said, you Berliners have built a great city. You've done so in spite of threats--the Soviet attempts to impose the East-mark, the blockade. Today the city thrives in spite of the challenges implicit in the very presence of this wall. What keeps you here? Certainly there's a great deal to be said for your fortitude, for your defiant courage. But I believe there's something deeper, something that involves Berlin's whole look and feel and way of life--not mere sentiment. No one could live long in Berlin without being completely disabused of illusions. Something instead, that has seen the difficulties of life in Berlin but chose to accept them, that continues to build this good and proud city in contrast to a surrounding totalitarian presence that refuses to release human energies or aspirations. Something that speaks with a powerful voice of affirmation, that says yes to this city, yes to the future, yes to freedom. In a word, I would submit that what keeps you in Berlin is love--love both profound and abiding.

Perhaps this gets to the root of the matter, to the most fundamental distinction of all between East and West. The totalitarian world produces backwardness because it does such violence to the spirit, thwarting the human impulse to create, to enjoy, to worship. The totalitarian world finds even symbols of love and of worship an affront. Years ago, before the East Germans began rebuilding their churches, they erected a secular structure: the television tower at Alexander Platz. Virtually ever since, the authorities have been working to correct what they view as the tower's one major flaw, treating the glass sphere at the top with paints and chemicals of every kind. Yet even today when the sun strikes that sphere--that sphere that towers over all Berlin--the light makes the sign of the cross. There in Berlin, like the city itself, symbols of love, symbols of worship, cannot be suppressed.

As I looked out a moment ago from the Reichstag, that embodiment of German unity, I noticed words crudely spray-painted upon the wall, perhaps by a young Berliner: "This wall will fall. Beliefs become reality." Yes, across Europe, this wall will fall. For it cannot withstand faith; it cannot withstand truth. The wall cannot withstand freedom.

And I would like, before I close, to say one word. I have read, and I have been questioned since I've been here about certain demonstrations against my coming. And I would like to say just one thing, and to those who demonstrate so. I wonder if they have ever asked themselves that if they should have the kind of government they apparently seek, no one would ever be able to do what they're doing again.

Thank you and God bless you all.



Note: The President spoke at 2:20 p.m. at the Brandenburg Gate. In his opening remarks, he referred to West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl. Prior to his remarks, President Reagan met with West German President Richard von Weizsacker and the Governing Mayor of West Berlin Eberhard Diepgen at Schloss Bellevue, President Weizsacker's official residence in West Berlin. Following the meeting, President Reagan went to the Reichstag, where he viewed the Berlin Wall from the East Balcony.

http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reagan/speeches/wall.asp

[Drake Tungsten]

But I have little to no respect for him.

We all have our faults.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by johncmcleod


Our military by far is the largest in the world and we spend more on it than the rest of the world combined.

I call bull****.

[The Mad Monk]

You're late.

[DinoDoc]

I ahte reading his posts anyway. Worse than Charles. Sue me.