To be "cultured"

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Asher

So would you agree that it would be unreasonable and rather stupid for somebody on Apolyton to accuse someone else of being "uncultured" because they stated how they liked, say, a popular band?

Of course. Add to that the fact that very few people on here have any clue about what goes on in any of the lives of the other posters here, and the person who said that looks even more stupid.

[Asher]

My main problem is the definition of "culture" by the pretentious people who accuse others of being uncultured.

There is a Canadian culture, which I was involved with last night: Drinking beer and watching the Stanley Cup Finals with friends, and then celebrating once we got an OT goal.

There is the Gay culture, which I see when I go down to Church Street and which I am a part of rather fundamentally...

There is the Geek culture, where I can talk with other geeks in weird ways and read technical books in my free time.

There is the Gamer culture, where I attend LAN parties and Halo-a-thons and play video games with friends and with people I don't know from around the world.

There is the Musical culture, where I listen to my favorite music, and play guitar/piano.

There's lots of culture, the problem is it's not "culture'. There's nothing inherently sophisticated (read: elitist) in that list, which classifies me as "uncultured" in the eyes of the flippant "cultured" judges.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Asher

So would you agree that it would be unreasonable and rather stupid for somebody on Apolyton to accuse someone else of being "uncultured" because they stated how they liked, say, a popular band?

well this whole anti-pop thing with geeks and losers in general is stupid enough by itself. And theres too much of it in poly.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Its a factor of ageism. Another tool for evil adults to keep down da kids.

Think of how this often starts, its a generational thing. "That rap music is garbage, not real music at all. Now THIS (insert older more 'cultured' music here) is quality music."

Remember also that a lot of the "cultured" things were put down when they first emerged. Most art was described as garbage by older generations, most music the same. Then the younger generation who produced said "uncultured" products got older, took the reigns of social power and condemned the products of their children as "uncultured trash".

This cycle has been going for many generations. Ageism is behind it.

While I think your general idea has merit, I would point out that it takes a lot more talent to play a traditional musical instrument than it does to chant any old garbage into a microphone.

Also, rap music is technically identical to Viking war chanting, so it's not really anything new.

[Caligastia]

When you break it right down to it's most basic level, a "culture" is just a set of things that people tend to do. You can think your culture is better than the culture of others, but for the most part that's just a matter of opinion.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why is it good to have "sophisticated" tastes?

Because you are embracing those things which have filtered down throughout history. It is basically keeping touch with how we all got here. Of course that is associated with elitism because it usually is the more conservative sort who have embraced the sophisticated taste (because conservativism is the embracing of political thought which has slowly filtered down throughout history). But what is wrong with elitism anyway?

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
But what is wrong with elitism anyway?

I wouldn't mind so much if the elitist art forms didn't get massive state hand outs (at least in the UK).

Cut the aid, watch the ticket price go through the roof, and then see how the snooty brigade support "their" artforms.

They'd be buying shooters and bling-bling like it was going out of fashion.

[East Street Trader]

Some "uncultured" things are universally preferred.

Cultured pearls, for example, are nice - but not in the same class as real ones.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why is it good to have "sophisticated" tastes?

Because you are embracing those things which have filtered down throughout history. It is basically keeping touch with how we all got here. Of course that is associated with elitism because it usually is the more conservative sort who have embraced the sophisticated taste (because conservativism is the embracing of political thought which has slowly filtered down throughout history). But what is wrong with elitism anyway?

Oh, there's nothing wrong with elitism. It's just a Jr. High mentality, is all. It's sad more than anything else.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Cruddy
While I think your general idea has merit, I would point out that it takes a lot more talent to play a traditional musical instrument than it does to chant any old garbage into a microphone.

Also, rap music is technically identical to Viking war chanting, so it's not really anything new.

Just wait a few decades when hip hop gets revered as high culture. Remember it takes a lot more talent to make a traditional painting than slosh some paint on the canvas like those hacks Picasso, Pollock, and Monet. That exactly what was said when modern art, and even impressionism and such came out. These were talentless hacks who couldn't do a "proper painting".

I think rapping takes a tremendous amount of talent. I can't do it. Its not just stringing words together in a chant, you have to have a flow that works with the music and such.

Plus as for instrumentation, I'd put the skills of an expert electric guitarist against any classical musician.

[Cruddy]

Well... OK, some raps show genuine talent, depth and emotion.

The vast majority that I hear are genuinely crap.

Maybe dissing the whole genre is elistist - but's it's just as elitist to say it's the best thing ever.

Just another artform.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Plus as for instrumentation, I'd put the skills of an expert electric guitarist against any classical musician.

A slight nitpick, but wouldn't a guitar (non-electric, of course) be a traditional musical instrument?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, there's nothing wrong with elitism. It's just a Jr. High mentality, is all. It's sad more than anything else.

Elitism based on intellect is a far different animal than elitism based on popularity. I think many more people that you'd think prefer their, say, political leaders to be somewhat of an intellectual elite. In fact, I'd say plenty back Kerry over Bush in the US elections over this - intellectual elite vs. common man buffoon.

[Caligastia]

cul·tured ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klchrd)
adj.

1. Educated, polished, and refined; cultivated.
2. Produced under artificial and controlled conditions: cultured pearls.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Cruddy
Well... OK, some raps show genuine talent, depth and emotion.

The vast majority that I hear are genuinely crap.

Vast majority of any genre i hear are crap talent wise.

You dont have to have talent to make a good song, but yeah most rappers are crap just like most rock bands are crap and most pianists are crap. some show genuine talent, depth and emotion