The Ice Age and the Fertile Crescent.

[Berzerker]

An earth-god of Canaan identified most importantly in Egypt with the great sphinx at Giza. Haurun is attested as a name in Egypt for over 1200 years from 1900 BC when he occurs in the New Kingdom made the initial analogy between the guardian-figure of Khephren carved over a thousand years earlier, and Haurun. Possibly from its position on the western desert looking towards the rising sun, reinterpreted by this time as the sun-god Harmachis the sphinx suggested to the foreign artisans the god Haurun viewing the 'City of the East' which Canaanite legend has him founding. A temple to this god, the 'House of Haurun' as it was called, was constructed in front of the sphinx. Haurun also figures in a magical spell against the dangers of wild animals such as lions or ferocious dogs; he provides the protection under his epithet 'the victorious herdsman'. There is an inherent contradiction (or dualism) in his character since his role as a healing god in Egypt must be balanced against his action as a god of doom in the Canaanite myth where Haurun is responsible for planting a 'tree of death'.

http://www.aelives.com/gods.htm

I forget when the Hyksos conquered Egypt, I thought it was closer to 1650 BC, but Haurun appears to have been present before then - 1900 BC - and long before the text on the stela. Unfortunately I can't find a glyph for Haurun other than the stela. It would be interesting to see if he depicted as a lion since he is a guardian against lions and wild dogs...

[Hueij]

Just a quick one before I'm off to work...

While I'm a fan of all 3 of these authors you dislike, I find Bauval's work on the astronomical connections to the pyramid region fascinating and have yet to see a critique refuting his work. Have you? Hancock has apparently adopted Bauval's work and West had the geologic survey of the Sphinx done and I haven't seen a convincing refutation of that either, so why should we just assume these 3 men are crackpots or frauds based on your conclusions or Egyptologists who are largely ignoring their work? Lumping these men together with von Daniken is uncalled for, I believe both West and Hancock have since dismissed the finds off Japan as a quirk of nature. Does that make them frauds? No, it makes them honest...

Yes I have http://www.hallofmaat.com/maat/article.php?sid=16

The next one I just skimmed but at first sight looks good...

http://www.hallofmaat.com/maat/article.php?sid=30

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
what?

Than suddern change in orbit of than planet can be than very bad thing. To add 5.25.... days to the Earth Solar Year mean than major change in Earth orbit , Venus obit, and Mars orbit. The ancient name for these planet are different from the one we use today. The ancient world struggle with how the Earth Solar year change. In Egpty they have than myth about this which I must look up.

[Al B. Sure!]

what the hell does that have to do with anything i was talking about?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Hueij
Yes I have http://www.hallofmaat.com/maat/article.php?sid=16

The next one I just skimmed but at first sight looks good...

http://www.hallofmaat.com/maat/article.php?sid=30

Another link

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
what the hell does that have to do with anything i was talking about?

What is desert in North Africa was once fertrale grassland and forest with than ancient civ going back more than 40,000 years than globical civ like our own. The coastline and the dept of the sea where different then. Than 4th dynat priest in a scroll we found state that Egypt was what remain of than ancient civ it was part of which streck back 40000 year from his date not our. The Egyptian try to keep than large lake in their desert from disappearing by builting than canul from the Nile river to it to bring in new water. It disappear into the desert sand no matter what they did. We found pre-dytmant writeing that was just as complex as the writeing from 3100 BCE and up. The Egyptianolgy expect the pre-dry writeing to be simpler. The Ancient Egyptian use the 360 days solar cal for the government use and afew religious holiday and the 365 days solar cal for common every day use.

[Al B. Sure!]

thats all fine and daddy but what does that have to do with my point that the Atlantean theorists seem to claim more-ancient-than-we-thought civilizations exist within a vacuum among a global sea of primitive hunter-gatherer societies?

if Atlantis existed or Egyptian civilization went back to 40000 BC, why was it that the rest of the world was so comparatively primitive (still Cro-Magnon Europe for god's sake!) but when civilization appeared (again) in 8000 BC, suddenly it appeared everywhere at once (Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, India, China) with, scientists are finding now, a great deal of contact between them.

[Berzerker]

Hoff, ancient calendars were not 360 days, most had a 5 day period in addition to the 360 days and had various names for the extra days, we just add an extra day to some of the months instead. The Venus calendar of the Maya was even superior to western calendars until much more recent times.

UR and Hueij - can you quote from those links? I was reading Hueij's first link and got sidetracked reading Jane Sellers. I have her book and am a big fan... Unlike you Hueij, she doesn't accuse Bauval of being a fraud, just guilty of some mistakes. Here is a quote from her:

Both Hancock and Bauval still promote the intriguing idea that the pyramid builders had a very specific moment in the heavens that they wished to commemorate on the floor of the Giza plateau. They suggest that the Egyptians of the Fourth Dynasty knew of a time when Orion had been seen due south at the same time that the pole of the ecliptic was due north, and the vernal point due east. I had found it exciting to contemplate that the Egyptians used the meridian passage of Orion to signal the heliacal rising of certain stars that marked the vernal equinox date. However, I then realized that this wonderful astronomical conjunction occurred for only a very brief moment in time, and that moment was c.10,500 BC, more than 8,000 years before.

She wrote a great book on the stellar religion of the ancient egyptians, a religion UR's link denies even existed by a guy who doesn't even know if Bauval's quotes of her are accurate. Her only problem with Bauval on this point is the great antiquity - 10,500 BC. That is not a problem for me since the ancients were far more in awe of the sky's movement than we are and would have spent alot of time watching, mapping, and measuring. Precession was why, the never ending flow of stars across the sky changed slowly over time. Hamlet's Mill deals with the importance ancient peoples placed on precession...

The most I got from those links was that while the Great Pyramids did line up just like Orion's Belt, a claim not challenged by those links, other stars and pyramids didn't match up exactly. I'd have to see how far off they are before concluding no connection existed given the obvious correlation between the 3 at Giza and Orion.

Speer -

if Atlantis existed or Egyptian civilization went back to 40000 BC, why was it that the rest of the world was so comparatively primitive (still Cro-Magnon Europe for god's sake!) but when civilization appeared (again) in 8000 BC, suddenly it appeared everywhere at once (Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, India, China) with, scientists are finding now, a great deal of contact between them.

If you had immense knowledge, would you share it with a bunch of people who could use it to kill you? It's called "arms control" The Egyptians claimed their culture/civilisation went back tens of thousands of years as well as the Sumerians, but this was the time of the gods. Ever read the story of the Tower of Babel? It offers a motive as to why the unwashed masses were kept "primitive", once they acquired knowledge they tried to reach Heaven and this angered "God".

[Al B. Sure!]

Berzerker:

and yet the egyptians and the sumerians (and the hittites and syrians... the indians and the chinese...) shared knowledge and goods immediately as they were civilizing...

[germanos]

Originally posted by Berzerker
If you had immense knowledge, would you share it with a bunch of people who could use it to kill you? It's called "arms control"

You very well might: it's called 'The white men's burden', or 'Nation-building'

If not nobly 'shared', invasions and conquest would have brought many technologies to the 'wild hordes'.
For example, guns and horses were at some point abundant among the American Natives, while they clearly opposed the advancing Europeans.

Even war is contact, and then it is 'adapt or die'.

[Al B. Sure!]

and besides, there was a great deal of trade between India and the middle east in 4000 BC

[CharlesBHoff]

Well the astord Belt between Mar and Juptier was form between 9500 BCE and 9000 CBE as the ancient have than name for the planet just destory by than stellar mass object that enter temp the solar system. Than astomer is saying this as the ancient have to change they cal to match the new orbit of the Earth around the sun. We are findly out the Unieverse isnot the stable unchangeing place we thought it was. The sun orbit around the galaxtic core in a 200 million year orbit.

[Saint Marcus]

there was even trade between south america and egypt in ancient times (judging from the cocaine samples in egyptian mummies).

[Al B. Sure!]

can someone tell me if charlesbhoff is a joke or not? he spews out this weird information as responses to me that have nothing to do with what i was saying... i say there was contact between civilizations of the bronze age and he starts talking about the asteriod belt... is he just playing with me?

[Boris Godunov]

I don't think he's playing, I think he's just a wee bit...special.