Tax the rich and give to the poor?

[Jaguar]

Tuomerhu: Better?

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Jaguar
I proclaim that the healthcare threadjack must end.

Please.

[Jaguar]

Yes, clearly it must end.


/me laughs at the Europeans because they don't have any wealthy people to tax.

[MikeH]

I just want to know how it compares to the amount of tax I pay.

[Berzerker]

Aggie -

You have absolutely no idea of how the world works. Instead you sit in your trailers, gorging on lard and watching the diseased, infantilist rubbish your networks spew, congratulating yourself on how no one else is really free as you crack open a bottle of meths while your politicians and big business get together to think up new ways of ripping you off.

Gee, such contempt for us peasants you plan to save from exploitation.

With socialized medicine. You get sick, you go to the doctor. End of story. Repeat for everyone.

Really? I don't have to get the government to agree I need a certain treatment? The state pays all my bills no questions asked? Ri-iiight

In the US. You get sick. A number of things could happen:

Could, would, should... could

(a) The doctors spend so much time trying to find out whether you are insured that you just die.

And we have...guess who... to thank for that? The government! Haha!!! You see, during WWII the government imposed wage and price controls on the economy (starting to sound like something socialists would do?) and employers were stuck competing for qualified workers with fewer incentives like higher pay, so employers found a loophole in the laws - "benefits" packages. And what was included? Yes, health care coverage and we took our second step down the third party payer road which is what insurance effectively is. How about HMO's? Yup, another result of government interfering in the economy... But feel free to show us all these people who've died while docs were checking insurance policies... My doc does what I need and deals with my insurance company when done...

(b) You are one of the 40% either uninsured or with **** insurance. You die.

Gee, the numbers seem to grow exponentially now. Last I heard it was ~40 million Americans, now it's ~130 million? Darn near no one had insurance 50 years ago. What changed? Government interference in the economy...

(c) You contribute to the twice as much as a percentage of GDP that US citizens spend on health care compared to their Canadian neighbours because your society is too stupid to organize health care properly.

We're stuck in a quasi-socialist paradise Roughly half the people who actually need health care on a regular basis already have socialised care, it's called Medicare and Medicaid and it's done wonders for everyone else's health care bills, i.e., we pay more to make up what doctors and hospitals lose to rationing in state programs. Yeah, blame the market for the results of socialist programs.

(d) Your doctor has been bribed by a drug company to overprescibe a certain drug. You have a fit, turn green, and die.

Happens all the time, right? Ever hear of a second opinion? Canada doesn't have private drug companies? Those companies don't try to get docs to use their products?

(e) The emergency ward is overrun with gunshot victims because your society thinks it is a good idea that psychopaths have the right to walk the street armed with miniature cannons. You have to wait. Your cut finger turns gangrenous, you die.

Gee, we have Bactine in the medicine cabinet. Aside from your inability to grasp cause and effect so effectively displayed in your prior indictments, you've begun straying off topic (but what the hey, this is the off topic forum). Sure, we could do away with our guns, but who would rescue Europe from the next tyrant who does the "I'm here to save you from exploitation" waltz into power and starts slaughtering an unarmed populace?

(f) The company that runs the hospital is cutting costs. They cut corners. So did the guy pushing your wheelchair, which broke, throwing you off and killing you.

Wow! That just happened to me the other day (oops, I didn't die). On the one hand we spend too much, on the other, we don't spend enough. Um...kay...

(g) You are a war veteran. **** off, what makes you think you're owed anything?

We have socialised medicine for them too... Ironic, huh?

Aint America great.

It was before socialists started ruining it with all their meddling.

Have you ever left Topeka, Berz?

Yup, I've lived all over the US - east coast, left coast, desert, great lakes region, and now smack dab in the center and the damn Repubs here aren't much better than the libs out in California. Have you ever left your anus?

[The Mad Monk]

I'll try to get the info on my health plan when I get home.

IIRC, I pay roughly $50 / week (or is it 2 weeks?) for medical insurance, Have a $15 per visit co-pay (everytime I go to the doctor, for anything, it's $15 up front), with a $1000 deductible for major medical procedures, with 80% coverage for something up to $50,000, and 100% coverage for anything over that (for all of them, for the year).

That is, if I just go in for a cold, get examined, and get a prescription written out, it's $15, period.

If I go to the hopital with severe stomach cramps, get admitted, get MRI'd, get my appendix removed, and stay the night, I pay $1000, plus 20% of the remaining expense -- unless the total goes over $50,000, at which point the insurance company pays for the rest.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Berzerker

Really? I don't have to get the government to agree I need a certain treatment? The state pays all my bills no questions asked? Ri-iiight

Yep. Pretty much. There are some funding battles internatlly in the health service but generally you go to the doctor, they say what treatment you need, you get it. You would never see a bill.

We do have to pay for prescription medicine which is a fixed price of about £5.50 IIRC if the doctor prescribes you something and you have to get it from the chemist.

Free if you are unemployed/on a pension etc.

[Jaguar]

wohoo! Reward the lazy!

[MikeH]

Where it falls down is in "non-urgent" operations, they can have long waiting lists.

Reward? Everyone should be able to see a doctor if they are sick. There are some unemployed people who are lazy, absolutely, but don't forget the genuine unemployed - eg. My Dad, who worked for 35 years or so paying tax but then got made redundant and is now struggling to find work because of his age.

[Solly]

Well Mike, I expect to be writing an exam answer in 4 hours time about how there is no involuntary unemployment

[MikeH]

Well both my parents are currently involuntarily unemployed, as is the guitarist from my band. My mum is still officially employed by Oracle until her notice period runs out but both the others have been looking for work for over a year with no success.

Nik's even been failing to get crappy temp jobs. (overqualified)

[RGBVideo]

nm

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by MikeH
Where it falls down is in "non-urgent" operations, they can have long waiting lists.

Reward? Everyone should be able to see a doctor if they are sick. There are some unemployed people who are lazy, absolutely, but don't forget the genuine unemployed - eg. My Dad, who worked for 35 years or so paying tax but then got made redundant and is now struggling to find work because of his age.

There wasn't any tenure type thing?

[Solly]

Well can I class myself as involuntarily unemployed because I can't get that £30k a year job I want?

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Jaguar

There wasn't any tenure type thing?

He was a contractor.