Tax the rich and give to the poor?

[Asher]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
How do I know, do I look like UR?

Other than that we can assume Asher and his parents are rich because he's always bragging about new computers (especially those loaded with expensive Microsloth products).

The only computer my parents have ever given me was a Pentium 100 for my room after they upgraded their computer.

I buy all the others myself. I'm a computer geek, I'm willing to spend the money.

As for the Microsoft products, I can't remember the last time I paid for MS PC software. Virtually every piece of software Microsoft makes is free for students if your uni is part of the MSDN Academic Alliance.

We were, of course, insured while living in the US through my dad's company. I don't think it was a very stellar HMO, Kaiser Permanente, IIRC, but it's still way, way better than the service we get in Canada.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh.. Kaiser sucks .

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jaguar
wohoo! Reward the lazy!

btw, I like your sig

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

that is (Sorta) what sales taxes are like

Um.. sales taxes are on PERCENTAGE. So no.

and deffinitely what the fees are like (to do stuff like own a cell phone or a car)

Cell phones or car prices aren't taxes. So no dice.

and overall the tax system would be more like that than progressive if the income tax went to a flat tax

Yes MORE LIKE THAT... not EXACTLY THAT! See the flat tax is this thing which is neither progressive nor regressive. It's right in the middle (equal % taken). A flat tax is more regressive than a progressive tax, but it ain't a regressive tax.

Ironically, you reinforce his point.

I totally and completely fail to see how. He just showed how much more efficient the US's system was in getting a cyst removed.

there are taxes on cell phones and cars and most everything else that are basically required to live in modern society

these are almost always regressive taxes, in that it is just one straight ammount that everyone pays (I assume that you look at your cell phone bill, and have looked at buying a car?)

sales taxes might seem flat, but they are actually regressive because what is sales taxed, the rich and poor buy in about equal numbers and so pay the same (reason why I said sorta)

it is just that the poor have a lot less money to pay out of

Jon Miller

[Asher]

So I've heard, which makes it all the more sad that Canada's worse.

Every time I bring this up in Canada, they always blame it on Alberta underfunding it (of course, Alberta is conservative, so we underfund everything by default...).

But in reality, Alberta spends more per capita on healthcare than most provinces: http://www.fcpp.org/publication_detail.php?PubID=191

Canada average in 2000: $2,198/person.
Alberta in 2000: $2,242/person.

Alberta also has the youngest population across all of the provinces, which reduces cost requirements.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Asher

The only computer my parents have ever given me was a Pentium 100 for my room after they upgraded their computer.

I buy all the others myself. I'm a computer geek, I'm willing to spend the money.

As for the Microsoft products, I can't remember the last time I paid for MS PC software. Virtually every piece of software Microsoft makes is free for students if your uni is part of the MSDN Academic Alliance.

We were, of course, insured while living in the US through my dad's company. I don't think it was a very stellar HMO, Kaiser Permanente, IIRC, but it's still way, way better than the service we get in Canada.

Kaiser is the worst insurance I have ever had (and also the cheapest)

I am paying twice as much for better right now

and just so everyone knows, Asher works his ass off for what he owns, it is not given him

JOn Miller

[Asher]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
I believe UR meant that in the US, a rich man was gauranteed of getting his cyst gone faster than a poor man.

It doesn't matter how much money you make, if you're under the same HMO it's all the same.

And as people have said, the HMO we were in was one of the cheapest.

[Jon Miller]

I am BlueCross BlueShield CareFirst PPO

Jon Miller

[Imran Siddiqui]

these are almost always regressive taxes, in that it is just one straight ammount that everyone pays

But everyone pays the same amount. The poor don't pay a greater amount, just more percentage wise.

sales taxes might seem flat, but they are actually regressive because what is sales taxed, the rich and poor buy in about equal numbers and so pay the same

And they pay the same percentage wise, so it isn't regressive. It is equal.

Regressive taxation is when the poor pay either more in absolute terms or percentage-wise. Progressive is when the rich pay more. When poor and rich pay the same in absolute or percentage-wise it is neither.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

these are almost always regressive taxes, in that it is just one straight ammount that everyone pays

But everyone pays the same amount. The poor don't pay a greater amount, just more percentage wise.

sales taxes might seem flat, but they are actually regressive because what is sales taxed, the rich and poor buy in about equal numbers and so pay the same

And they pay the same percentage wise, so it isn't regressive. It is equal.

Regressive taxation is when the poor pay either more in absolute terms or percentage-wise. Progressive is when the rich pay more. When poor and rich pay the same in absolute or percentage-wise it is neither.

can't you read?

it is most deffinitely regressive when the poor and the rich pay the same absolutely

and yes, sales tax is flat on the surface, in that everyone pays te same percentage

but the rich don't pay it on all their wealth, they buy (on stuff that there is a Sales tax on) roughly the same as the poor

and so pay teh same ammount

my post clearly showed how abolutely unfair it was to have the rich and the poor pay the same absolute ammount

I know you are not dumb, please reread and think carefully about it

Jon Miller

[joncha]

A flat tax is regressive. Someone making $100k per year can afford to lose 10% of their income far more than someone making $10k can.

[Jon Miller]

I agree with that as well

I am arguing that the rest of the system (ignoring the income tax) is already regressive

and so make the income tax a flat tax wouldjsut make it more regressive (which is inarguable)

Jon Miller

[joncha]

I'd like to see one of these conservative "tax crusaders" get rid of something regressive (like sales tax) for a change, and stop whining about income tax levels.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by joncha
A flat tax is regressive. Someone making $100k per year can afford to lose 10% of their income far more than someone making $10k can.

You're an idiot, you know that?

regressive
adj 1: (of taxes) adjusted so that the rate decreases as the amount increases

If everyone is charged at a rate of 10%, then the rate DOESN'T decrease as the amount increases.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by joncha
I'd like to see one of these conservative "tax crusaders" get rid of something regressive (like sales tax) for a change, and stop whining about income tax levels.

Sales tax isn't regressive, for several reasons:

1) people with more money tend to buy more stuff, thus they pay more sales tax

2) sales tax is completely voluntary

3) it's not an income tax