Islamic militants praise 'heroic' slaughter of pregnant woman, 4 daughters

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
What about her unborn child? Did it deserve to die, too?

Nope.
Just like the children of an Israeli soldier don't deserve to become orphans. Yep, it is war and it is ugly. This is the reason why I oppose war.

I am amazed the Yanks here pretend to be so enlightened, when they actively support the conditions that lead to a bloodbath of civlians and soldiers. And I am the obscurantist when I tell that there is a price to war, and this is the death of your enemies just like of your loved ones.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I am amazed the Yanks here pretend to be so enlightened, when they actively support the conditions that lead to a bloodbath of civlians and soldiers. And I am the obscurantist when I tell that there is a price to war, and this is the death of your enemies just like of your loved ones.

Yanks are enlightened. We created an environment where Muslims and Jews can live harmoniously without killing each other. Bigots don't desecrate our graveyards with Nazi slogans. We don't prohibit minority religions from waring their headgear. We make mistakes, but we do have a moral compass.

[Drake Tungsten]

I think it's less about us Yanks being enlightened and more about us having souls...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Felch
Then when I say that non-violent Iraqis who cooperate with the resistance are the equivalents of soldiers, you won't argue? And Palestinians who allow weapons to be stored in their homes, or even celebrate after attacks, should be treated as combatants?

Save for those who celebrate after attacks, these people should be treated as active collaborators indeed. When you wage war, you don't pick flowers.

Certainly we should be able to agree that taking your logic to its end (people should be killed for what they express and believe rather than as a last resort to preserve one's own life)

These people are not merely believing in something. They are actually conquering a territory for the sake of their beliefs. That's a whole heap of difference. As much as I oppose settlerism, I don't think the advocates of settlerism are valid targets if they don't go there themselves. Those who actually do the conquest, however, are a different story.

is not a moral step forward, but rather a savage and inhumane way of thinking.

War is inhumane. When you wage a war, when you enter a war zone, when you bring your children to a war zone, you should not expect any humanity.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Spiffor
War is inhumane. When you wage a war, when you enter a war zone, when you bring your children to a war zone, you should not expect any humanity.

Congratulations, you have been baited into giving a damning quote that I will throw in your face next time you criticize an American or Israeli attack that kills civilians. Expecially children.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I am amazed the Yanks here pretend to be so enlightened, when they actively support the conditions that lead to a bloodbath of civlians and soldiers. And I am the obscurantist when I tell that there is a price to war, and this is the death of your enemies just like of your loved ones.

Why are you amazed. I don't like Iraqi civilians dieing anymore than Israeli ones. If an American soldiers pointed their weapons at a pregnant iraqi woman and her daughters and slaughtered them then there would the same amount of outrage. You got so upset about iraqi deaths as of late yet seem to have hardened up to the death of Israelies. But thankfully for you, you can put the isreali women in the "volentary soldier" catagory.

[Guardian]

All I have to say about this is that, first of all, I don't think this has ANYTHING to do with resistance. Second, as long as there are people who commit such atrocities, and as long as there are other people who celebrate them as "heroic", they will never know peace and they will certainly NEVER have their own state. Third, I'm almost okay with that. If they can't do better than this, then they don't deserve any better. I'm just sorry that we can't separate these bastards from all the "ordinary" people in the region.

Lastly, I know that people on the other side have done wrong as well, but that doesn't change any of the above as far as I'm concerned. Any argument concerning whether or not the settlers had a right to be there is also irrelevant in my opinion. Stuff like this will just never be okay as far as I'm concerned, and so anyone who does things like this will never be anything other than a terrorist and a murderer in my book.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Why are you amazed. I don't like Iraqi civilians dieing anymore than Israeli ones. If an American soldiers pointed their weapons at a pregnant iraqi woman and her daughters and slaughtered them then there would the same amount of outrage. You got so upset about iraqi deaths as of late yet seem to have hardened up to the death of Israelies. But thankfully for you, you can put the isreali women in the "volentary soldier" catagory.

Originally posted by Sprayber
Does it ****ing matter the body count in either. I mean really, Dont get all high and mighty towards me. I dont give a **** if you like bush or not. Im finding it hard to care how many iraqies are dying when most of the people only care that they are dying while americans are around. no one gave a **** when they were dying from Iraqie bullets. Of course that was somehow our fault too. So i dont give a damn. I care about the people around me. I care about Oerdin. I care about the people I know that are there now and the people that will be there when and if I go. So put the morality bs on someone else.

Like I said, my give a fvck is broken. It only works for a select few at the moment........

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2910692#post2910692

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Felch
Congratulations, you have been baited into giving a damning quote that I will throw in your face next time you criticize an American or Israeli attack that kills civilians. Expecially children.

I don't remember having criticized the US or Israel for reacting to attacks when attacked in a crowded area (I pinpointed the PR damage though). War is ugly. That's why we should strive to avoid it.

Sparyber:

But thankfully for you, you can put the isreali women in the "volentary soldier" catagory.

Was the plural intentional, or a typo? I don't consider ordinary Israeli civilians to be combatant at all. At the contrary, Israel is a country that has every reason to continue to exist, and its civilians have every reason to continue living there, in peace and safety at last.

My comments were directed at this kind of adult settlers. Certainly not at the Israeli population in general.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph




http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...92#post2910692

And Ive stayed up many nights wondering about that


On second thought, what i said was pretty accurate. You have some folks trying to work their way around their death as if its logical while the iraqi deaths are considered so much more horrible.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I don't remember having criticized the US or Israel for reacting to attacks when attacked in a crowded area (I pinpointed the PR damage though). War is ugly. That's why we should strive to avoid it.

Sparyber:

But thankfully for you, you can put the isreali women in the "volentary soldier" catagory.

Was the plural intentional, or a typo? I don't consider ordinary Israeli civilians to be combatant at all. At the contrary, Israel is a country that has every reason to continue to exist, and its civilians have every reason to continue living there, in peace and safety at last.

My comments were directed at this kind of adult settlers. Certainly not at the Israeli population in general.

Typo.. sorry...

If it had been me, I would not have had my daughters and wife in such a place to begin with. So in that aspect I may agree with you somewhat.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Typo.. sorry...

No problem

BTW, My comment about the validity of settlers as targets was originally a side-comment (my original point was the bias of the article). True, it would have been easier to make this comment in other threads, which wouldn't have shown such a barbarous action. True, it would also have been easier to let somebody else do the flamewar; it's not like I am alone on 'Poly thinking the settlers are voluntarily worsening the situation and humiliating Arabs, for the sake of Eretz Israel.

I insist that I do not defend the barbarous attack that has been made on this family. Innocent children have died in this. Unarmed people have been killed, and there's no telling whether the attackers could have chosen a "softer" pressure, like abduction. And had this happened anywhere else than in a settlement, I wouldn't have been called a "Israel-hater" (I would still argue on the bias of the paper though).

[Az]

Do you think that all the million of French settlers in Algiers were valid targets?

[ElTigre]

Originally posted by Felch

Originally posted by Spiffor
War is inhumane. When you wage a war, when you enter a war zone, when you bring your children to a war zone, you should not expect any humanity.

Congratulations, you have been baited into giving a damning quote that I will throw in your face next time you criticize an American or Israeli attack that kills civilians. Expecially children.

Thank you for your cooperation.

1. I do not agree with Spiffor.

2. The difference that Spiffor is trying to make (or so I think) is that the woman entered a war-zone. This act can be viewed as aggressive, though only in principle. The difference to Iraqi and Palestinian civilians is that the war is brought to them, to their homes. The same applies to civilians in Israel itself, of course.

3.

I think it's less about us Yanks being enlightened and more about us having souls...

... which you sold to the devil, Mr. Bush.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Azazel
Do you think that all the million of French settlers in Algiers were valid targets?

Nope, because most of them have lived in Algiers all their life (and this is a very important difference to me, as it is to them, who have been cast from their home to metropolitan France after the independence). However, I think that early colonists who followed the military conquests would have been as valid targets for a local resistance as the French soldiers.