Oh, CRAP! Ex-Football Star Pat Tillman KIA in Afghanistan - Official

[Tuberski]

I have my moments......

On a side note I was watching CNN yesterday and they were talking about the monument at Bank One ballpark for Tillman.

Just as they said the word monument, they happened to have on-screen apicture of a hot blond in a mini skirt bending over and showing her 38 DD's to the camera.

Now those were some monuments.

ACK!

[Jon Miller]

Jon Miller
(and I agree with Sprayber)

[Drake Tungsten]

Just as they said the word monument, they happened to have on-screen apicture of a hot blond in a mini skirt bending over and showing her 38 DD's to the camera.

Now those were some monuments.

[Whaleboy]

you could be the stupidest person I have ever encountered.

State sponsered murder?

Have you ever heard of 9/11. 3000 people dead?

Remeber, we are talking about the war in afghanistant, not that "other" war we shouldn't be in.

I'm saying we shouldn't be fighting wars full stop. You'll note that 9/11 was a crime, a mass murder of ~3000 people, and not state-sponsored murder or an act of war per se. More pragmatically, I think there was greater justification for the Afghanistan campaign than the Iraq one, much great justification, yet I would no rather fight there than in Iraq! Do you understand the distinction. Tillman may well have had reasons he thought were important for fighting, I do not believe they were so. My opinion is no more objective than his, I am merely stating mine, which you can take as indicative of my actions given the same situation.

And regarding 9/11, how long do you intend to keep using that to justify your little crusades? America should just get over it.

you just don't get it do you? Even if you don't believe in nations, other countries do. And they will organize and will conquer you. What are you going to do when an army of 2 million threatens you or your family?

Moon them? What's your point?

[The Mad Monk]

Tuberski

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Sava
This is a bigger media circus than Jessica Lynch.

Sava..since this is indeed, unfortunatley a Circus event ...



and since Sgt. Tillman was indeed a former NFL player with a mediocre team...

I say have a celebration over in that Country and say.......flip on coin..

Oh here i have one..and this is the result:

[JohnT]

Well, Adam Smith, don't you now feel like a total dumbass for even thinking to post this thread, much less doing so? Perhaps some people would feel better if you apologized or something...

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Sloww never said that he didn't respect reservists. He's just saying that Tillman's sacrifice of a dream life to serve his country makes him respect Tillman more than some soldiers who got into the service for less noble reasons.

"Less noble" reasons? Hmm. I don't know about you or Sloww, but the reservists from *my* neck of the woods serving in Iraq right now are pretty straight-up men and women. Firefighters, water plant administrators, police officers and so on.

Some have been deployed for more than a year now (and won't be coming home anytime soon with the 90-120 day deployment extensions), while a second group shippped out in December. Insofar as I can tell, none of them signed up for "less noble" reasons than the late Tillman. Most are in their mid- to late 20s and 30s (some a bit older even), and a number of them were once regular military. Before being deployed, they often helped out in disaster situations stateside (usually due to Mother Nature's vagaries).

Forgive me for going on and on, but I'm struggling here to find the "less noble" reasons these men and women signed up. I can't. As far as I can tell, their hearts and minds are similar to Tillman's. To me, that's what counts. Not status in life. Not because they signed up for "less noble" reasons.

A perfectly legitimate point of view, even if I don't entirely agree with it. Certainly not a viewpoint deserving of all the bile and hatred being thrown Slowwhand's way right now...

I'll let my signature speak for itself. Nonetheless, if what I'm writing is considered "bile and hatred," then this world's in a lot more trouble than I thought it was.

Gatekeeper

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Forgive me for going on and on, but I'm struggling here to find the "less noble" reasons these men and women signed up. I can't. As far as I can tell, their hearts and minds are similar to Tillman's. To me, that's what counts. Not status in life. Not because they signed up for "less noble" reasons.

You must know better people than I. I have several friends that signed up for the money thinking that they would never have to do anything more than give up a few days or weeks a year. Well, one is currently in Falluja right now, and i'm not sure what happened to the other after he was shipped out, meaning he's alive, but I don't know where. The only thing these guys were thinking about was the "free" money, nothing noble. I know because they would laugh about it prior to 9/11. Good times

That is not to say there aren't people who sign up for noble reasons, as I'm sure there are, but I think sloww et al were referring to people like my friends.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Oh, hell, damn, Sprayber.
Where the hell did I say other sacrifices meant nothing?
Cripes. Jump on the bandwagon with these idiots.

I'll stand by the most severe thing I DID say.
Tillman walking away from the life he did to serve his country stirs more in me than some jackass friend of Che's that thought they could rake in a little extra beer money by serving weekends, only to have the rug jerked out from underneath that little plan.

Dude, you're really a little ****head, you know that? Reservists serve their country just as much as Pat Tillman. Reservists are dying overseas.

You're really no different than any of the other warmongers that run this country. **** the poor and the reservists fighting this war, lets hold a football player up on high.

**** you

[Drake Tungsten]

"Less noble" reasons? Hmm. I don't know about you or Sloww, but the reservists from *my* neck of the woods serving in Iraq right now are pretty straight-up men and women. Firefighters, water plant administrators, police officers and so on.

I'm sure they are and I don't think Sloww was talking about these kind of people. I think he was talking more about the people who got into the military hoping to get the advantages of the system without ever having to fight. These type of people definitely exist, although I'm not sure on the numbers of them. I would imagine that it's pretty low, but that's just a guess on my part.

I'll let my signature speak for itself. Nonetheless, if what I'm writing is considered "bile and hatred," then this world's in a lot more trouble than I thought it was.

I wasn't talking about you as much as I was about comments like this...

Dude, you're really a little ****head, you know that? Reservists serve their country just as much as Pat Tillman. Reservists are dying overseas.

You're really no different than any of the other warmongers that run this country. **** the poor and the reservists fighting this war, lets hold a football player up on high.

**** you

Reeks of bile and hatred to me...

[Adam Smith]

Look, folks, I don't give a hang whether Pat Tillman was a famous football player or not. This could have been about a fireman, stockbroker, college professor, whatever.

And there's no disrespect to reservists, regular military, or anybody else. Their lives and families have been screwed up enough by being sent overseas for who knows how long. Most of it (Iraq) wasn't necessary.

So far as I know this guy wasn't on a one-man Rambo trip.

And this isn't a Jessica Lynch media farce. Not by a long shot.

But from what I understand, this is one of the clearest cases about a guy who felt that he wasn't pulling his weight after 9-11, got up off his ass, and did something about it, even though he had plenty of good reasons not to. And I think that deserves some resepct.

[JohnT]

nm

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
There's a difference in someone who joins the service because that's about their only option.

I don't give a **** why they volunteer. A soldier is a soldier, Airborne is all the way, Rangers lead the way, and squids and air farce generally need not apply. There are plenty of other options than joining the military, and for people who don't have many options, they're not likely to get into Airborne or Ranger school, let alone into one of the Ranger battalions, if they even get into the military at all. We're not back in the days of taking any ****up who's at a dead end in life. When they die in action, each one is no more, nor any less, valuable or meaningful than any other.

There's a difference in someone who plays weekend warrior and gets caught with his pants down.

If they get killed because of their own negligence or poor training, we don't know in most cases. Weekend warriors who deploy and don't try to ***** their way out of it also rate the same respect when their asses are in the line. The enemy doesn't give a **** - he's still trying to kill you.

Then there's Tillman who had it made and walked away from it all.
If you don't see that, Michael, then you don't.

As opposed to the 20 year old KIA who went into the service to get through college on the GI bill, and would have had it made, if his or her life hadn't got cut short?

You can sit there with a stupid look on your face like Sava does.

Eat me, Tex. Every KIA deserves the same honor and respect as every other KIA regardless of their background, unit, or reason for being there, except for those whose actions in the field are exceptionally valorous. And every KIA, WIA, MIA or POW equally deserves not to have his or her situation used for political gain or propaganda purposes, like the five Sullivan brothers back in WW2. First the ****ing Navy makes a big deal about them joining together and put them on the same ship, then when all five go to the bottom of Ironbottom Sound, they made propaganda posters out of 'em. I bet that was a great comfort to Ma and Pa Sullivan.

Maybe we need a new Insta-hero since Jessica Lynch didn't quite work out, and we don't have the glorious and clear victory our fearless leaders thought we'd get?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
But from what I understand, this is one of the clearest cases about a guy who felt that he wasn't pulling his weight after 9-11, got up off his ass, and did something about it, even though he had plenty of good reasons not to. And I think that deserves some resepct.

My point is that everyone who did something about it and paid the price deserves equal respect.

We've lost quite a number of good men and women, and most of them had a majority of their lives and life accomplisments ahead of them.