UK to hold Referendum on EU "Constitution"

[DinoDoc]

If the voters reject it, are you going to keep voting on the issue until it gets a yes vote?

[ElTigre]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn

I never said less individual liberty, this should stay the same. And if you're adding a new tier to the top of any government, then naturally you are going to have less local authority. How could you not? There's only a certain amount of powers in any government, so if you're creating a new tier, there are less powers for local governments. This is like 3-1=2. Unless you're giving the EU silly authorities like "Moon Defense", which you're clearly not.

Subsidiarity, definition: a principle in social organization: functions which subordinate or local organizations perform effectively belong more properly to them than to a dominant central organization.

This means, in turn, that functions which are performed more efficiently by superior organizations should belong to centralized institutions. If that lessens local authority, why not? I prefer efficiency over fragmentation. Is it that bad that the German Federal Bank does not exist anymore? The European Central Bank can do the same job far better.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If the voters reject it, are you going to keep voting on the issue until it gets a yes vote?

Yes, that's how the EU works.

[DinoDoc]

Why deal with this whole democracy thing if the issue is already decided then?

[Spiffor]

I am glad Britain puts the constitution issue to referendum. Since Rosbifs are mostly anti-European jerks, they'll obviously reject it, but it is a victory for democracy nonetheless. Something badly needed in Britain after the Iraq debacle.

However, I fear the referendum campaign will be full of stupid scaremongering, and that the Rosbif voter will be presented false issues, instead of casting an informed vote. There are many good reasons to oppose the European constitution, but the Brits will likely be presented the wrong reasons, and the almost inexistant "loss of sovereignity" will be presented as the main issue by the anti-Europeans, instead of a critics of how the currently existing EU works, and how a good constitution could fix that (not that I am thrilled by the constitution)

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why deal with this whole democracy thing if the issue is already decided then?

Democracy can be successful at stalling a decision. Take the Swiss for example: they still are not members of the EU, despite our insistance to assimilate them since 1957. The Norwegians also are successful at stalling.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I am glad Britain puts the constitution issue to referendum. Since Rosbifs are mostly anti-European jerks, they'll obviously reject it, but it is a victory for democracy nonetheless. Something badly needed in Britain after the Iraq debacle.

However, I fear the referendum campaign will be full of stupid scaremongering, and that the Rosbif voter will be presented false issues, instead of casting an informed vote. There are many good reasons to oppose the European constitution, but the Brits will likely be presented the wrong reasons, and the almost inexistant "loss of sovereignity" will be presented as the main issue by the anti-Europeans, instead of a critics of how the currently existing EU works, and how a good constitution could fix that (not that I am thrilled by the constitution)

Hey, hey... Don't you know that your Lord Chirac and the Queen just celebrated 100 years of friendship?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
The EU is a force for good. It will defend us from the evil Zionists and the oppressive American imperialists.

You're an idiot.

The EU is not good.. just more bureaucracy. It will collapse eventually.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Hey, hey... Don't you know that your Lord Chirac and the Queen just celebrated 100 years of friendship?

Wat? Friendship with the Rosbifs? With these... these JOAN BURNERS! Never!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Wat? Friendship with the Rosbifs? With these... these JOAN BURNERS! Never!

Hmmm... seems hopeless.



We could make you love them again, by invading. This worked twice in the near past. We would of course lose in the end, as always, but we would gladly bring this sacrifice, to bring both of you together again.

Just avoid to have your asses saved by the Yanks this time. That's embarassing!

[Spiffor]

More seriously, it is since I post on 'Poly that I fathom the gap between the British mindset, and the rest of Europe's mindset toward the EU. The Brits see the EU as nothing else than a money-machine, that should remain so, and only so. Very few Brits feel a European dream, which is something needed to advance in this trailblazing adventure.

My moost notable political change of opinion since I'm on 'Poly is that I now fully support a two-speed Europe. On the one hand, an economic bureacuracy the Brits (and some reluctants such as the Norwegians, the Swiss and the Danes) seem to be fond of, and on the other hand, a political construct that also adheres to the economic bureaucracy.
I think it is useless, and pretty much impossible, to make everybody agree on a political Europe. Especially the pain in the ass that is Britain. Leave it be in its outdated nationalism, and let's not be held back by them as we move forward

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Hmmm... seems hopeless.



We could make you love them again, by invading. This worked twice in the near past. We would of course lose in the end, as always, but we would gladly bring this sacrifice, to bring both of you together again.

Just avoid to have your asses saved by the Yanks this time. That's embarassing!

At the contrary, I suggest fe fight together against the evil Robifs, to make sure our lovefest gets to its logical conclusion

[Harovan]

Deal!

[Solly]

"explain the issue in a simple no nonsense way"

That's impossible

Pekka,

"the political benefits are, that we can all have a united opinion on things. Which means, that the big ones move their weight and get even bigger front when they do power politics outside Europe"

Actually, it seems that when nations unite up their "opinion" they tend to have a smaller total say than when separate.

[The Viceroy]

I am concerned about the level of debate, and im concerned that we will get to vote on some meaningless aspect of the consitution, rather than the real issue's..

My preferred question would be simple.

SHOULD THE UK REMAIN PART OF THE EU ? YES/NO

SHOULD THE UK BE PART OF THE US ? YES/NO

SHOULD WE SIT ON OUR LITTLE ISLAND AND REMEMBER PAST GLORIOUS VICTORIES OVER THE FRENCH? YES / YES

well .. it would make it more interesting anyway

Actually, Id add another question, should the UK join the Republic of India .. now that would be a turn around for the history books.