UK to hold Referendum on EU "Constitution"

[ElTigre]

You don't fill out a tax form for indirect taxes, do you?

[Kuciwalker]

My point is, if they're requisitioning the money from the member states, rather than directly from the people, they are no better off than the US under the Articles of Confederation.

[ElTigre]

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that the EU doesn't have the means to collect these taxes directly from the people. So the member states probably administrate these taxes and forward the money to the EU.

Who has contended that Europe is more united than the US under the Articles of Confederation? The enforcement of laws / treaties / whatever is not the way the EU works. It tries to integrate decision making processes, so that national solo attempts become superfluous. Finally, states begin to transfer sovereignty to these new institutions. And yes, this process is not irreversible, enforceable or predetermined.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

So what would you all say is the point at which the EU could possibly be defined as a "state", because right now its more just a loose confederation of countries.

Probably once individual citizenships are abolished completely. Because even thought there is an EU passport, its still differentiated by country internationally.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
So what would you all say is the point at which the EU could possibly be defined as a "state", because right now its more just a loose confederation of countries.

The day the EU becomes a State is the day people identify more to the EU than to their individual countries. It won't happen anytime soon (currently, about 10% of Europeans feel more European than their own nationality - a rough 50% doesn't feel European at all)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I dread the fact we are a miserly confederacy. I want a glorious federation, which we are absolutely not.

In order to make that step you have to make it worth their while.