The British National Party

[Whaleboy]

Evil Knevil: Have a drink

[Derekrage]

This is Britain, not Caucasia, so why should we support white people being here?

White people have lived here for thousands of years, we were here first.

Why not? What's wrong with more education, more civil rights, more consideration and more tolerance?

There's nothing wrong with more education (as long as it's the right kind of education). Whats wrong with our civil rights now?

Not the muslims, the terrorists. That the terrorists are Muslim does not mean that Muslims are terrorists. Learn you necessary and sufficient conditions, or continue to support the hypothesis that the BNP and its supporters a racist. Know that statements such as yours are only helping your opposing argument and weakening your own position, its basic critical theory.

What difference does it make if I say Muslims or Muslim terrorists? They are Muslims.

I don't doubt of course, that if there is another 9/11 here, that people will be scared, they will be angry, they will be emotional, they will be filled with hatred and they will target Muslims, the convenient scapegoat.

The Muslims would be targetted because they would be our enemy.

[Derekrage]

How about all British Catholics who view the pope above GB? Or Scots who view the Kirk above GB?

Would you say the Catholics view themselves as Catholic first before British? From the Catholics I've met I would say they didn't, of course it might be different in Scotland.

Well done on the first change of heart.... but to your latter point; why not?

I dont believe you should ever be a Muslim who lives in Britain, or a Protestant who lives in Britain. You should be British who is a Protestant, Catholic, Jewish etc.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Derekrage
White people have lived here for thousands of years, we were here first.

So?

[Derekrage]

So?

So that is why we should, as Whaleboy put it, "support white people being here".

[Evil Knevil]

Originally posted by Derekrage


So that is why we should, as Whaleboy put it, "support white people being here".

Why?

[Whaleboy]

White people have lived here for thousands of years, we were here first.

Territorial schoolboy argument.

There's nothing wrong with more education (as long as it's the right kind of education). Whats wrong with our civil rights now?

The right kind of education, I assume you mean editorialising or giving a biased history (the aim of suchandsuch event was good), in which case it is not something that you can define objectively, particularly with something as highly arbitrary as the nature of education, or what people intend to do with it. Where education becomes indoctrination, as you suggest, I say that is malevolent. Education should be more socratic in my opinion, especially when it comes to forming other peoples opinions.

As for civil rights, there are not enough in my view when people wish for more that would not hurt others. Your arguments are like those used to maintain slavery or keep women in the home .

What difference does it make if I say Muslims or Muslim terrorists? They are Muslims.

They're as Muslim as they are human, so are we to call them human terrorists and say the humans are our enemy?

The Muslims would be targetted because they would be our enemy.

Do you not think thats crossing a line? Nonetheless, please explain how Islam is Britains enemy?

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Derekrage
White people have lived here for thousands of years, we were here first.

The anscestors of the Welsh lived here for thousands of years before what would become the English immigrated to these islands and drove them into the valleys of Wales. You fully support any Welsh attempt to kick the English out and take back their land, yes? A nice big sign saying "Germanics go home" and educating everyone in the Welsh language?

What difference does it make if I say Muslims or Muslim terrorists? They are Muslims.

Because one can be a Muslim and not be a terrorist. In fact, the vast vast majority of muslims aren't terrorists. By your logic, all Irish are terrorists based on the actions of the IRA. After all, what difference does it make if we say Irish or Irish terrorist? They are Irish.

[Whaleboy]

I dont believe you should ever be a Muslim who lives in Britain, or a Protestant who lives in Britain. You should be British who is a Protestant, Catholic, Jewish etc.

Hardly, that is down to the individual. Religion to a religious person takes on more importance than state allegiance, and not even many nationalists would purport a nation becoming like a religion to its citizens. Fundamentally, when it comes down to belief, a part of someones identity, do we say that one should be more British than their identity, or individual, with their identity first? Needless to say, the greater argument lies with the latter, unless individualism scares you.

[Derekrage]

The anscestors of the Welsh lived here for thousands of years before what would become the English immigrated to these islands and drove them into the valleys of Wales. You fully support any Welsh attempt to kick the English out and take back their land, yes? A nice big sign saying "Germanics go home" and educating everyone in the Welsh language?

Well they could try but they would lose. Why would I support them when I am not welsh?
And weren't the Welsh white.

Because one can be a Muslim and not be a terrorist. In fact, the vast vast majority of muslims aren't terrorists. By your logic, all Irish are terrorists based on the actions of the IRA. After all, what difference does it make if we say Irish or Irish terrorist? They are Irish.

When I said Muslims I was obviously talking about terrorists. I don't see anything thing wrong in saying the "The Irish are going to blow up the building" just as I wouldn't be bothered if people said the same thing about British people.

Territorial schoolboy argument.

True though.

As for civil rights, there are not enough in my view when people wish for more that would not hurt others. Your arguments are like those used to maintain slavery or keep women in the home .

Seriously what civil rights? Do you mean gay rights or something else?

The right kind of education, I assume you mean editorialising or giving a biased history (the aim of suchandsuch event was good), in which case it is not something that you can define objectively, particularly with something as highly arbitrary as the nature of education, or what people intend to do with it. Where education becomes indoctrination, as you suggest, I say that is malevolent. Education should be more socratic in my opinion, especially when it comes to forming other peoples opinions.

Well as a nationalist I would like people to be given a more patriotic education and look upon the accomplishments of our ancestors with a little more pride.

Do you not think thats crossing a line? Nonetheless, please explain how Islam is Britains enemy?

It is not an enemy at the moment, it is however a threat.

[Derekrage]

Hardly, that is down to the individual. Religion to a religious person takes on more importance than state allegiance, and not even many nationalists would purport a nation becoming like a religion to its citizens.

Yes religion is very important to people but what I'm saying is that just because somebody believes in the same God as you should not make him more important to you than one of your countrymen.
Many muslims believe we are at war with Islam because we have attacked an Islamic country, that is idiotic to say the least, I mean if we were at war with Islam then they would not be alive today. When we were fighting the Italians in ww2 did the Catholics in Britain consider it an attack on them? no because they were British first.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Derekrage



British customs.



British way of life.



Lazarus, I understand what you're getting at, I used to get this question a lot when campaigning for the BNP.
Compare Britain to Italy, what sets us apart? It is our language, customs and way of life. That is what makes a country different and unique, do you really believe that there is no such thing as a British or Scottish, English and Welsh culture?

I certainly do believe there is an English, Welsh and Scottish culture. But a British one? Hardly.

Seeing as you got asked this question all the time, why aren't you answering it now? Did you get laughed at?

[Lord Merciless]

Sooner or later those ragheads are going to turn the European population against them, then there will be massacres not seen in human history.

Most of the liberals chanting "not all Muslims are terrorists" now will probably be busy helping authorities sending them to death camps.

The only hope for European Muslims is that they stop finding excuses for the terrorists among them and start fighting them.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Thanks for feeling you had something to contribute.

[Whaleboy]

Well they could try but they would lose. Why would I support them when I am not welsh?
And weren't the Welsh white.

So you admit that whether people are white or not is an issue for you?

When I said Muslims I was obviously talking about terrorists. I don't see anything thing wrong in saying the "The Irish are going to blow up the building" just as I wouldn't be bothered if people said the same thing about British people.

All of those are woefully fallacious. It is like saying that men have declared war on women because women are killed in suicide explosions, that are mostly the work of men.

True though.

Fact-value distinction. Let us assume for the moment that white people were here first (that is technically wrong, since Cromagnon man was here after Homo Neanderthalis, and they were of African appearance), what does it mean? What relevance is it that one group of people were present before another, thousands of years ago, to todays situation?

Seriously what civil rights? Do you mean gay rights or something else?

Among others, yes.

Well as a nationalist I would like people to be given a more patriotic education and look upon the accomplishments of our ancestors with a little more pride.

I would like nationalism and editorialising to be taken out of education, allowing people to form their own views, and discuss them in a Socratic manner. That means teaching fact, not opinion, though of course one can teach of opinion. One must ask the question of you again, why do you want this?

It is not an enemy at the moment, it is however a threat.

A great army of barbaric Muslims rising up to overthrow their civilised white superiors?

Yes religion is very important to people but what I'm saying is that just because somebody believes in the same God as you should not make him more important to you than one of your countrymen.

Here we have two things in common, using your assumptions not mine of course. The nation and the god. We are thus forced to compare them. Religious people may believe their God to be omnipotent, wise, eternal. Do we say the same of a nation? Can we deny that the Ten Commandments, for example, exude a greater sense of conceptual purity than the manifesto of the BNP? While I am against people using identity as a reason to consider some more important than another, there is a greater argument for religion to be that distinction than a nation. Nonetheless, we do not all retreat behind the fallacious barrier of patriotism.

When we were fighting the Italians in ww2 did the Catholics in Britain consider it an attack on them? no because they were British first.

That can be attributed to a sense of shared identity with those that are being attacked. The reasons for that cannot be attributed to some inherent fault in Islam. It is my opinion that the sense of brotherhood that Muslims feel for their fellow Muslims is a thoroughly positive thing, and I share the sentiment of many Muslims that I know, that for both theological and philosophical reasons, that should be extended to all humans regardless of nation or belief. There is a growing movement in Islam to make that so.

Sooner or later those ragheads are going to turn the European population against them, then there will be massacres not seen in human history.

If it does happen, it would be because of people like the BNP, and it is in fact the liberals who would stop them. A somewhat extreme prediction of doom don't you think Lord Merciless?