The British National Party

[Whaleboy]

Well the best solution would have been to not run this multi-culturism experiment in the first place. However now that its in full swing, the only thing you can do is shut it down. I have already posted what policies I support, no to all asylum seekers and an education to teach British values, customs and traditions to the Arabs and Blacks that still act as if they were in their homeland.

This experiment has been running for centuries. Furthermore, I would argue that there are more cultural differences between me (a suburbanite) and a countryside dweller, than me and a second-generation Pakistani!

Thats why multi-culturism is bad for Britain imo, the basis for a society is a common culture.

Not at all. Society is composed of several component cultures, sub-cultures, "tribes" and trends. This is of course if we are dealing with a large (~1M+) number of people. A measure of its liberalisation and stability is ironically the number and diversity of those elements, assuming they don't want to kill each other, which is the problem we have with multiculturalism at the moment, the delinquents of both sides symptomatic of hostility and repression.

Because they will get rid of Multi-culturism.

Pray tell, how? I can only think of stopping immigration (again how?) which would not be good for the UK, assimilation, which again would fail as it has done before, and lead to generations of resentment, and throwing people with a different culture into the Solent. None of those are particularly appealing to me.

[Whaleboy]

Whaleboy- I mean having the guts to stand up to PC lobby and do what is best for Britain, not sell us out because they are afraid of being branded a racist or a nazi.

Ironically for you, that would lose the party popularity, so democracy even fails for you!!

Nonetheless, actions should be taken on their merits but the actions you propose have few compared to the alternatives for the given context. I agree that PC is no basis for political decisions but then you should not paint liberals as PC by default, since of course there are many aspects where PC is against liberalism. Yet the liberals don't have a persecution complex . I contend that what is best for Britain is for this nation to move in an increasinly liberal, and considered direction, rather than barracade ourselves inside an island of nostalgia, lager-louts and hyper-inflation.

[Derekrage]

Why do you have this impression that a multi-cultural Britain is...
1 - new

2 - an experiment?

Lazarus- Because it is new, I think the last few times that a Multi-cultural Britain did exist was at the point of a sword with the Romans and then the Saxons which was hundreds and hundreds of years ago. And even then the culture of the Saxons was not that different from the Angles(?) living there at the time.

I call it an experiment because it's exactly the sort of thing mad scientist would try, introduce something new to an environment and sit back and watch the fireworks!

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
At current rates of migration, it would take centuries (not decades) for whites to become a minority, even allowing for a population decline among whites due to having smaller families. Possibly even millennia. You're getting panicked about nothing.

I'm desperately trying to avoid doing any homework, so I thought I'd give your example a go with some statistics from www.statistics.gov.uk

UK population as of 2002: 59,050,800
Of this, 92% is White: 54,326,736
and 7.9% non-white, a catagory including Asians, East Asians, Blacks, and mixed: 4,665,013

Migration out: 359,000
Migration in: 513,000
Net Migration for 2002: 153,000 into the UK
Asylum applications for 2003: 61,050

Deaths per 1000: 20.4

Now, if we assume the following things:
-The UK's population is static at roughly 60 million people
-All emmigration is white and all immigration is non-white
-All migration is from non-white countries outside the EU (a large chunk of migration is other EU citizens and Commonwealth members)
-All asylum claims are accepted (88% are rejected)
-White people stop having children (We may be below replacement levels but you breeders still keep having tykes) and start dying
-Non-white people magically become immortal
-No intergration of cultures into mainstream British society.

Then it will take just under 50 years for white Britain to become a minority (49%) and a full 100 years for it to be the same percentage as the current non-white population (7.9%).

Given the almost absurd circumstances needed for this scenerio (ie, immortality and such), I think the white population of the UK will stay a comfortable majority for another century or two yet.

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Derekrage
I call it an experiment because it's exactly the sort of thing mad scientist would try, introduce something new to an environment and sit back and watch the fireworks!

And this is bad because.....?

[Whaleboy]

Lazarus- Because it is new, I think the last few times that a Multi-cultural Britain did exist was at the point of a sword with the Romans and then the Saxons which was hundreds and hundreds of years ago. And even then the culture of the Saxons was not that different from the Angles(?) living there at the time.

You kidding? Different languages and later dialects, major religious differences, simple cultural differences, not to mention geographical location. In effect, any large liberal society is multicultural due to the diversity of its constituent members! We're not dealing with discrete concepts here.

[Whaleboy]

I call it an experiment because it's exactly the sort of thing mad scientist would try, introduce something new to an environment and sit back and watch the fireworks!

Gotta say, you have a strange notion of a fireworks display! Most of the people are watching the football and the toffee apples aren't halal!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Derekrage

Lazarus- Because it is new, I think the last few times that a Multi-cultural Britain did exist was at the point of a sword with the Romans and then the Saxons which was hundreds and hundreds of years ago. And even then the culture of the Saxons was not that different from the Angles(?) living there at the time.

I call it an experiment because it's exactly the sort of thing mad scientist would try, introduce something new to an environment and sit back and watch the fireworks!

Oh what a load of unhistorical tripe.

Do you really think that the Cornish are the same as the Geordies? Or the Welsh the same as people from East Anglia? At best all you have to link them is skin colour, which is really the crux of the matter for people like you and Park Avenue and Caligastia.

The first Chinatown in Europe? Liverpool in the 17th Century.

Sailors from the Yemen went and settled in the north east (that strange part of Britain that uses Norse derived dialect words to describe children and women- bairns and wives) and Somalians settled in Cardiff.

There has been an intermittent black presence in England since Roman times (nearly every sizeable town would have had black people living in it as servants in the 18th Century) and the Jews (who were never expelled from Ireland) were reinvited in by Oliver Cromwell.

Of course the problem with all racists is that they want contradictory things- they don't like Asians, or Africans or Jews because they're different, or they're scared of Jews 'assimiliating' because some of them look like white people, and you can't tell them apart from good Christians, or if the Asians and Africans do 'assimilate' they'll marry 'white' girls and dilute the 'master' race or take jobs from 'our boys' .

It's the same tired old spew that gets puked out every time- by Mosley pre-WWII and post-WWII and the National Front and the BNP in the 70s and 80s. The only thingthat really changed was the avidity with which some Conservative politicians jumped on the racism bandwagon, drawing some slope browed supporters away from the far right to the Tories- I remember the slogan well- 'If you want a n-gger for a neighbour, vote Labour.'

Perhaps you and Park Avenue could emigrate to Rockall or Gruinard- set up your own tighty whitey protectorate, free from alien influences like Latin, kebabs and curry powder, where you can celebrate the joy of being whiter than white with packets of Omo and episodes of 'Love thy Neighbour' and 'Mind Your Language' and deep fried stotties and stale beer....

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Whaleboy


Evidently

I was referring in particular to those who think it's wrong to expect immigrants to follow our customs.

I'm stoned, cut me some slack!

[Derekrage]

Do you really think that the Cornish are the same as the Geordies? Or the Welsh the same as people from East Anglia? At best all you have to link them is skin colour, which is really the crux of the matter for people like you and Park Avenue and Caligastia.

I have been to cornwall and saw no important differences between there and Newcastle.

The first Chinatown in Europe? Liverpool in the 17th Century.

Totally irrelevant, I am not against small scale immigration where they do not create social problems on a national level.

Of course the problem with all racists is that they want contradictory things- they don't like Asians, or Africans or Jews because they're different, or they're scared of Jews 'assimiliating' because some of them look like white people, and you can't tell them apart from good Christians, or if the Asians and Africans do 'assimilate' they'll marry 'white' girls and dilute the 'master' race or take jobs from 'our boys'

You seem to have come to the conclusion that I am a racist, if thats what you want to call me then its fine by me,
even though I dont find Arabs or Africans genetically inferior in anyway. And I have no problem if they assimilate and marry white girls, its when they dont assimilate that its a problem.

I remember the slogan well- 'If you want a n-gger for a neighbour, vote Labour.'

Well it turned out true in the end didn't it? I voted Labour in '97 and there are a hell of a lot more black people around.

Perhaps you and Park Avenue could emigrate to Rockall or Gruinard- set up your own tighty whitey protectorate, free from alien influences like Latin, kebabs and curry powder, where you can celebrate the joy of being whiter than white with packets of Omo and episodes of 'Love thy Neighbour' and 'Mind Your Language' and deep fried stotties and stale beer....

Starchild - If we can do something now that will prevent whites from becoming the minority in 200, 500 or even 1000 years then we should do. This is a long term problem that with determinaton and courage a leader could put an end to now.

[Derekrage]

Nonetheless, actions should be taken on their merits but the actions you propose have few compared to the alternatives for the given context. I agree that PC is no basis for political decisions but then you should not paint liberals as PC by default, since of course there are many aspects where PC is against liberalism. Yet the liberals don't have a persecution complex . I contend that what is best for Britain is for this nation to move in an increasinly liberal, and considered direction, rather than barracade ourselves inside an island of nostalgia, lager-louts and hyper-inflation.

Whaleboy, I dont think I painted all liberals as PC, I said the "PC lobby" not the liberal PC lobby.
You may think an increasingly liberal society is best for Britain but in my opinion it will simply make us weaker. My ideal view of Britain is a nationalist nation where people put the countries needs above their own selfish desires for more money, more money and more money. I do not believe that we should barricade ourselves inside and island of nostalgia anymore than you do, yes we should be proud of our history but I do not want Britain to live a hundred years in the past, we should look forward to the bright future that Britain could have.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Derekrage


Lazarus- Because it is new, I think the last few times that a Multi-cultural Britain did exist was at the point of a sword with the Romans and then the Saxons which was hundreds and hundreds of years ago. And even then the culture of the Saxons was not that different from the Angles(?) living there at the time.

Significant omissions (pay attention)-

Danish Danelaw.
Northumbrian Danelaw.
British Strathclyde.
Dal Riata
Pictish Scotland
Norse Scotland
Danish Ireland
Norse Ireland
Irish Ireland
Protestant Ulster
Wales
Cornwall (a British state that was never conquered by Rome, had its own language for 1000 years and was only loosely attached to England until 1700).
Protestant Scotland
Catholic Scotland

You'll notice that in these cases, when people are left to their own devices they tend to bumble along for a bit, start trading with each other, start marrying each other and generally getting to deal with it.

You'll notice that when rulers start trying to control the situation and enforce nationalistic aims, the poo-poo hits the fan. That's why we got The Troubles and the St Brice's Day massacre, to name but two.

[Derekrage]

Lazarus - The Vikings never really settled in the Danelaw apart from a few town, they were simply the ruling class. Ireland is not a part of Britain, also I should have said England instead of Britain as Britain as state didn't exist until a few centuries ago .
As for the rest on the list like Pictish Scotland, Wales and Cornwall, that is not really multi-culturism in the way that I mean. They all had their own lands and eventually got conquered/assimilated into a more powerful country.

I am not arguing the fact that Britain was a Multi-ethnic land in the past but imo in the last 3 centuries a common British culture had emerged, not Welsh, English or Scottish.

You'll notice that in these cases, when people are left to their own devices they tend to bumble along for a bit, start trading with each other, start marrying each other and generally getting to deal with it.

This was hundreds of years in the past and we are not talking about 2 different ethnic groups uniting into a single kingdom. We are already a single country and all this immigration is bringing us is social divisions.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

You're wrong on nearly every count there. I think you need to start examining how much of your knowledge of this country's history is based on assumptions unsupported by fact.

Meanwhile you can explain why you think human nature has changed so profoundly in 200 years that the past cannot be used as an example for the present.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

This is what really bugs me about your Nationalists and your Golden Age Nostalgic Protectionists. The people constantly trying to appeal to some historic ideal of nationalistic milky tea Englishness tend to turn out to be the people with the scantest idea of what our history actually was.