The most depressing "conversation" I've had in a while

[Japher]

"No vicious dispositions of the mind more obstinately resist both the counsels of philosophy and the injunctions of religion than those which are complicated with an opinion of dignity; and which we cannot dismiss without leaving in the hands of opposition some advantage iniquitously obtained, or suffering from our own prejudices some imputation of pusillanimity.

"For this reason scarcely any law of our Redeemer is more openly transgressed, or more industriously evaded, than that by which he commands his followers to forgive injuries, and prohibits, under the sanction of eternal misery, the gratification of the desire which every man feels to return pain upon him that inflicts it. Many who could have conquered their anger are unable to combat pride, and pursue offences to the extremity of vengeance, lest they should be insulted by the triumph of an enemy."
S. Johnson: Rambler #185 (December 24, 1751)

[Nubclear]

United Methodist Church

[DinoDoc]

I thought you were a Mormon.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
In my experience, a good number of people who take religion classes are usually not interested in approaching such issues with an open mind any way. So don't be too disheartened.

Actually, in mine (Spring 2001) we only had the ONE fundamentalist, though we had other Christians. She mostly just made pompous, ignorant comments but was generally a nice person. She knew I was both gay and non-Christian and while that did bother her, we spent that semester and summer hanging out. I went to church for the first time - probably last - with her and her boyfriend. The teacher of the class was Jewish, enough to be a Rabbi if she so chose. All-in-all a great class.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I thought you were a Mormon.

No.

[DinoDoc]

Then what's a Methodist doing in Utah?

[Nubclear]

Utah is a nice, peaceful place with a nice healthcare system. A good place to raise children.

Much better than bad cities like New York or LA or Chicago or somesuch.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I thought you were a Mormon.

He is.

[Arrian]

Sky, your signature is out of control.

-Arrian

[Last Conformist]

It's not merely out of control, is multiplying and threatening to take over all of 'Poly OT.

[DinoDoc]

He doesn't care. He's been told numerous times already.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
It's not merely out of control, is multiplying and threatening to take over all of 'Poly OT.

That's the idea

[Dinner]

Christianity started out as a deviant sect of Judaism and the first two centuries AD saw it changed radically. A good class on the history of Christianity should be made manditory for all Christians. That said I've now read about 80% of the Koran and I must say it is a much more violent religion then the Christianity of the New Testiment (I.E. the part about Jesus and his Apostiles). The Koran starts out peaceful enough but as Mohommed becomes more powerful it gets more and more vitriole and much more punitive. I also noticed how the good Prophet started claiming God's rules frequently changed when it was in Mohommed's interest for them to do so; just check out how Mohommed rewrote the rules in order to allow him to marry his brother's ex-wife (which was previously forbiden) or how he wrote in special exemptions for himself to have an unlimited number of wives (other Moslems could only have four) etc...

[monolith94]

"Faith is something that comes without question."

No, it's not. Faith is something that comes after questioning, but you believe anyway because it feels right, and makes you a better person.

Many of the most profoundly religious people are such BECAUSE they question. And in questioning, they contemplate. In contemplation, deep thought and meditation we reach more beautiful wisdom.

The unquestioning mind can be good, if it unquestioningly performs good and benevolent acts without thought of recompense or ulterior motives, or it can be bad, if it uses that belief as a vessel for hatred.

All of these broad generalizations really get my goat. Braaah!

[Evil Knevil]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I must say it is a much more violent religion then the Christianity of the New Testiment (I.E. the part about Jesus and his Apostiles).

Even the apocrophya about Jesus returning to scourge Babylon, or even that wacko book of Revelations?

The Koran starts out peaceful enough but as Mohommed becomes more powerful it gets more and more vitriole and much more punitive.

Utterly false! It makes me doubt that you've read the Koran.
Firstly the Koran isn't in chronological order, so there isn't a trend at all! It's more roughly ordered from largest passages to smallest.
It starts with the long and polemical passages and moves to the more abstract spiritual ones.
Besides, the passages that are generally accepted to have been written later are *less* vitriolic, more to do with the sunna of Medina.

I also noticed how the good Prophet started claiming God's rules frequently changed when it was in Mohommed's interest for them to do so

Oh dear. I think this argument was last suggested in by Gibbon in the 18th Century. If you had actually read the Koran, you would know that later scripture 'clarifies' early scriptures, it also supercedes it: The laws on alcohol start with something like "Allah dislikes drinkers" until in the later Suras is claims that "All alcohol is poison, not medicine it is haram". Nowhere are there sudden changes in 'policy'. In fact the Koran is a lot more consistent (in the trajectory of ideas) than the Gospels.

As far as Muhammad's later marriages are concerned, maybe they were to do with with 'massive lust' as medieval thugs have described it.
Or maybe it was due to the fact that he needed political marriages. According to the Koran these marriage exceptions were allowed because of the many widows created by persecutions and wars. There were described as an act of charity.

Also Muslims are normally only allowed 3 wifes, not four like you incorrectly describe. Except during times of war, where men are allowed to 'marry' widows to protect and support them, in much the same way Muhammad did.


Anything else? I don't think you've even read the Koran, in fact I think that the Army Chaplin's been hitting you over the head too much with his big book of medieval prejudices.

Just because you've made the same mistake as Kirkwaffen's classmates and confused the Arabs shooting at your ass with all Muslims doesnt mean that the faith is any more violent than any other.

What are the first 5 lines of the second sura of the Koran?