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Iraq, Shiite Armageddon, the Mahdi Army, chaos theory and the Hidden Imam

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tripledoc
    I don't hate America. I have been to college in America and I liked it a lot. I found the teachers there very much inspiring. They always said "Think for yourself". I have seen Grand Canyon, and many other wonders.

    I saw the violence. I saw the poverty too. And I saw a lot of decent people. I heard a lot of anger.

    The most decent man I saw was our college dorm watchman who was a veteran of the Vietnam War. A black man with the thousand yard stare. He was always there when the cops or the security guards tried to bust someone for something. He drove us on trips to see the nature, to ski, or go waterrafting. A good man.

    I disagree with US foriegn policy, which I feel is not beneficial to the American people.
    Well you want American soldiers dead, and that says enough. You want this rebellion to kill more and more soldiers. 'Nuf said
    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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    • #17
      Our watchman kept several guns in his house. Someone asked him why? He asked us if we trusted our governments.

      I think that is why I understand why Americans have guns. I went to a shooting range myself. But I was a very poor shot. The man who tried to teach me to shoot was very friendly, but he agreed that guns was not for me.

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      • #18
        And this explains, in what way, the romantic feelings you have for these insurgents?

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        • #19
          dude, the insurgents are resisting an oppresive government they percieve in the united states. they are not very different from militias is the mountain states.
          "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
          'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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          • #20
            Hey AH I heard you feel like Shiite.

            Don't Mecca big deal out of it.
            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MRT144
              dude, the insurgents are resisting an oppresive government they percieve in the united states. they are not very different from militias is the mountain states.
              True.

              They are both made up of whackjobs.
              We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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              • #22
                The Shi'as I've met in Iraq don't seem to be motivated by religious zeal so much as a desire to finalli see the majority shi'a take over Iraq. Sadr & Sistani have been claiming the Americans want to rig the system to disanfranchize the Shi'a (the Sunni are better educated and prior to the war were seen as more socialist and thus more pro-western). That's one of the reasons Sadr and Sistani keep pushing for immediate direct elections.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                • #23
                  Give the guy a break. There's something human about having at least a guilty feeling that you wish you could support the hopeless underdog, even when it's a group of crazy murderous fanatical terrorists. There *is* something romantic about a few hundred people taking on the biggest superpower in the world for reasons they think are right, even if they only think that because they're rabid loony fundamentalists.

                  But acknowledging it's romantic doesn't mean that I wouldn't love to see them totally crushed.
                  "Although I may disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to hear me tell you how wrong you are."

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                  • #24
                    You also have to consider recent polls showed only 1 out of 10 Shi'as support violence against coalition soldiers. So I think Sadr and Sistani are digging their own graves.

                    The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


                    "Shia Arabs in Iraq (news - web sites) generally do not support attacks against coalition forces like the ones that occurred over the weekend, according to a nationwide poll of Iraqis.



                    On Sunday, Shia Arabs in several parts of the country fought with coalition forces, killing at least 52 Iraqis and nine coalition troops. The confrontation threatened to open a dangerous new front: a confrontation with Iraq's powerful Shia majority, which has until now largely avoided violence with the Americans.


                    Attempts by U.S. troops to arrest Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr have heightened tensions with Iraq's Shia majority at a time when those troops already face the Sunni guerrillas' bloody insurgency.


                    Anger at the United States peaks among Sunni Arabs, especially those who live in the central Iraq province of Anbar. That province includes Fallujah, where four contractors were killed and their bodies mutilated last week.


                    Shias are less likely than Sunnis to say the invasion of Iraq was wrong — by about 30 percentage points. And only one in 10 Shias say attacks on coalition forces are acceptable, compared with three in 10 Sunni Arabs and seven in 10 Sunnis in the Anbar province.


                    The poll of 2,737 Iraqis age 15 and older was conducted from Feb. 9-28 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2 percentage points, larger for subgroups like Shia Arabs. The poll was conducted by Oxford Research International for ABC News, the BBC, the German network ARD and the Japanese network NHK."

                    The Sunnis are more prone to violence against the coalition.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                    • #25
                      Al Sadr does not represent mainstream Iraqi shiite opinion.
                      Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                      Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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                      • #26
                        Sadr may be a bastard, but there's no reason to call him a terrorist.
                        In one of his speeches (or was it a statement?) he associated himself with Hizbullah and Hamas and supports these two groups. He who associates with them and therefore calls upon the killing of civilians, is a terrorist. He has also called upon his followers to "terrorise the Americans".
                        "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier

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                        • #27
                          Sadr is a terrorist plain and simple. He doesn't represent the Shi'ia population, is actually hated by many shi'ias, and is putting his people through suffering. He isn't only terrorising americans there, he is terrorising his own people. He should be shot dead on sight and I think the majority of Shi'as would cheer that.
                          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Giant_Squid
                            But acknowledging it's romantic doesn't mean that I wouldn't love to see them totally crushed.
                            I see this in the typical germanic urbanite sort of fashion.

                            Ach so the Amis have taken our oil-fields.
                            Let us build some cars which go 100 km per litre.
                            Maybe we can make a pop song or two.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Tripledoc


                              I see this in the typical germanic urbanite sort of fashion.

                              Ach so the Amis have taken our oil-fields.
                              Let us build some cars which go 100 km per litre.
                              Maybe we can make a pop song or two.
                              No offense or all, but are you high on crack?
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                              • #30
                                Note to self. Send more money to Spain.

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