The US must stay the course in Iraq

[Defiant]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


The U.S. would likely be politically forced to do something since they are right there. Having fought a war in Kosovo to "prevent genocide" and against Iraq to defen the right of small nations to exist, I don't see how the U.S. could stand by an let the Turks invade. They should do it on July 4th.

Hell, lets go futher, make Kurdistan the 51st state of the Union.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


Wow, Poly is really getting to you.

The current situation brings to the fore the fact that the occupation has yet to deal with any of the underlying problems: The Diplomat calls for "staying the course", well, the course has done zip to make a dent on many of the underlying porblems, so how the hell is staying the course a good thing?

No, I stayed on topic.

original post

"But if we back down, we send a signal to all would-be aggressors that the US is not willing to fight and die for what it believes in."

if by changing course you mean dealing differently with local politics, or involving the UN more, or more whatever, youd have a point. But youd be offtopic, since the original post clearly meant "not staying the course" to mean simply withdrawing. Unless you think a US withdrawl would solve the problems better, something which you have not actually argued for, you have not actually disagreed with the original poster.

In your view, as near as i can tell, the principle underlying problem is the existence of differing ethnic groups in IRaq with a 500 year history of rivalry. NOTHING the coalition could conceivably do could alter this fact, thus the problem is never dented, no matter what course the coalition follows, no matter what happens on the ground in Iraq.

You thought the invasion in Iraq was a bad idea, cause of the ethnic makeup in Iraq. And if civil war doesnt blow now , it will next year. And if not then, in another 5 years. Basically your arguement is not falsifiable within this decade, and perhaps not within the next decade.

As Chou En Lai is reported to have said when asked if the French revolution was a good thing, "Its too early to tell" Which is wise, in a way, but isnt really an answer to people trying to understand events, in say, 1798.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


No, I don;t expect them to be won immidiately. In fact, I think the US would have to remain in control of Iraq for at least 3 years, and that we should double the number of forces there, and more than double the direct investment into the country.

We are doing this on the cheap and on the fly. Sadly the democracts won't do much better. At least, giving the UN a greater mandate alliviates slightly some of the porblems of this politically and ideologically driven effort by the amdin.

so you think we should not merely stay the course, but should redouble it, cause we're doing it on the cheap. Sounds to me like you just agreed with the original poster.

[GePap]

HELLO!

"The Course" means handing over soverignty to the interim government by June 30. In fact, this is what Bush said today, with relations to staying on course.

What course are you speaking about? Pulling out? give me a break! Has anyone said this in this thread save TMV?

Your posts seem to have little to do with mine.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap
HELLO!

"The Course" means handing over soverignty to the interim government by June 30. In fact, this is what Bush said today, with relations to staying on course.

What course are you speaking about? Pulling out? give me a break! Has anyone said this in this thread save TMV?

Your posts seem to have little to do with mine.

hello!!!

The thread was started by a poster calling himself "the diplomat" not by George W Bush (who AFAIK doesnt post to Poly) The Diplomat made no reference whatsoever to the date of the turnover.

Your posts have little to do with the post of the person who started the thread.

Did you see the thread title and just respond to that, without actually reading the first post??? OK, it happens to all of us

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Defiant
Hell, lets go futher, make Kurdistan the 51st state of the Union.

Do you conservatives really want a Muslim state?

[Defiant]

Hell, we have one million of them here now, that could fill a few states in the West Mid West, Utah, Montana and a few others.

[chequita guevara]

Hmmm, why don't minorites move West to take over small states . . . aside from lack of jobs, that is?

[Sava]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


sava must think Diem was democratically elected.

am I wrong for thinking that? give me a link to a source that says otherwise.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DataAeolus


Americans were there on the behalf of the South Vietnamese government. Basically they just packed up their bags and told the South Vietnamese government "You're on your own now, buddy."

Americans were not expelled, they left of their own will.

You have a ****ed up perception of history.


United States was allied with South Vietnam -- our goal was to prevent communist takeover of South Vietnam. When we withdrew from Vietnam altogether, the communists of North Vietnam, with their South Vietnamese supporters, took over South Vietnam.

Thus, our goal failed and thus . . . . . .


we were defeated.


I know that we're suppose to patriotically correct to presume that our country is too good to ever lose any war or conflict, but that does not fit with scholarly history.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by dannubis
has it ever occurred to you that the 'average iraqi' might not want or isn't ready for a democracy ? not by a longshot ?

The kurds are ready.

[Tripledoc]

Republicans ask voters if they think that the US should widen the war to Thailand, Syria, Somalia, and the Philippines.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/8287104.htm

[Chemical Ollie]

If US didn't loose in Vietnam, Germany didn't loose WW1.

[Tripledoc]

According to the newswires.

The US plan is to reduce the number of forces from 125.000 to 100.000 after the the 30th of June. But yesteday rumours indicated that the commander for US Central Command, John Abizaid, has requested his staff to explore the possibilities for increasing the number of troops in Iraq.

In a speech yesterday senator Kennedy said "Iraq has become George Bush's Vietnam."

[Verto]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


In a speech yesterday senator Kennedy said "Iraq has become George Bush's Vietnam."

Well, if Mr. Kennedy says so..