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The US must stay the course in Iraq

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  • #1

    The US must stay the course in Iraq

    Obviously, the violence and deaths are tragic and very sad.

    But if we back down, we send a signal to all would-be aggressors that the US is not willing to fight and die for what it believes in.

    If that would be the case, then we have already lost because it means that any would-be enemy can just come and kick us around and get their way.

    In Iraq, we have two sides that want to take over control of the government. We have radical shiites that want power and we have baathist militants that want power. They think that if they hurt us enough, that we will withdraw and then they can fight it out in a civl war and take over the country all to themselves.

    We have to win. We have to stay tough no matter how many lives we lose. We have to crush the militants or terrorists or whomever wishes us harm, until they surrender and Iraq can live in peace.

    We have to win because if we don't, we send a signal to all would-be enemies that the US is weak and can be kicked around at ease.
    'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
    G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
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  • #2
    I dont think the US should stay in to prove a point to terrorists, since by staying in, it strengthens the terrorist cause. However, any hope for the Iraqis lies in there being some outside assistance, and while I would prefer that to be the UN, the USA is a preferable alternative to Al Qaeda.
    "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
    "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

    Comment

    • #3
      What course? You do realize the amdin. plans to turn over soverignty on june 31 to the interim Iraqi government, and as of Today, they have yet to work out what powers the US will hav in Iraq, under what arrengement US troops will function, specially since it is highly unlikely Iraq's own army or police forces will be ready in time.....

      Unless you think the country can be pacified in the next 3 months finally......
      If you don't like reality, change it! me
      "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
      "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
      "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Whaleboy
        the USA is a preferable alternative to Al Qaeda.
        Wow -- at least you can concede this point.



        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

        Comment

        • #5
          Someone needs to stay in order to provide the necessary stability.

          The $64000 question is who has the most politcal will to do so. The US under Bush, the US under Kerry, or the UN?


          Scary as the thought may be Bush has nothing to lose once achieving a second term, hence it most likely that he would stay the course IMO.

          'course that means a whole lot of other things I don't like as well.


          Kang or Kodos?
          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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          • #6
            you know
            25 years ago exactely the same things were said about vietnam...

            now, did the commies kick your balls afterwards ?

            the only reason you have to stay is that if you leave now you will have created the situation which this little war was to solve in the first place : a breeding ground for terrorists....
            "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

            Comment

            • #7
              what course?

              You do realize the amdin. plans to turn over soverignty on june 31 to the interim Iraqi government, and as of Today, they have yet to work out what powers the US will hav in Iraq, under what arrengement US troops will function, specially since it is highly unlikely Iraq's own army or police forces will be ready in time
              If you don't like reality, change it! me
              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

              Comment

              • #8
                Wow -- at least you can concede this point.
                There's always one
                "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
                "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by dannubis
                  you know
                  25 years ago exactely the same things were said about vietnam...

                  now, did the commies kick your balls afterwards ?

                  the only reason you have to stay is that if you leave now you will have created the situation which this little war was to solve in the first place : a breeding ground for terrorists....
                  One of the reasons why we lost the Vietnam War was because some of the higher military leaders and too many officials in the Johnson administration were stuck in the "conventional warfare" thought mode. They wanted to use air bombings and increase American ground troops in Vietnam to the point of overkill, while neglecting the nation-building aspect that would have increased South Vietnamese support for their own government.

                  Of course, South Vietnam's government was corrupt and repressive in its own right, so that was another reason for our loss. Why would the South Vietnamese, in their eyes, have any good reason to fight for their lives for a government that was dysfunctional?


                  I doubt we will make the same mistakes in Iraq.
                  A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    The June deadline was a joke, was never going to happen. This is still a war and there are armed militia that need to be destroyed. Trying to play nicey nice with these animals doesn't work, you have to lower yourself to their playing level and destroy them at their game.
                    The leaders in Falluja are saying that any foreigner in Falluja is fair game, so be it, then they are too. This Operation "Vigilant Resolve" is going to be a joke unless we take the hammer to this town. The residents will be nice while we are there and as soon as we leave four more bodies will show up. The residents need to understand their fellow buddies who are doing this crap need to stop, the responsibility lays with all of the Falluja people.
                    Lets always remember the passangers on United Flight 93, true heroes in every sense of the word!

                    (Quick! Someone! Anyone! Sava! Come help! )-mrmitchell

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MrFun


                      One of the reasons why we lost the Vietnam War was because some of the higher military leaders and too many officials in the Johnson administration were stuck in the "conventional warfare" thought mode. They wanted to use air bombings and increase American ground troops in Vietnam to the point of overkill, while neglecting the nation-building aspect that would have increased South Vietnamese support for their own government.

                      Of course, South Vietnam's government was corrupt and repressive in its own right, so that was another reason for our loss. Why would the South Vietnamese, in their eyes, have any good reason to fight for their lives for a government that was dysfunctional?


                      I doubt we will make the same mistakes in Iraq.
                      [devil's advocate]
                      But this is the gist of GePap's contined question "What course?"
                      [/devil's advocate]
                      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GePap
                        What course? You do realize the amdin. plans to turn over soverignty on june 31 to the interim Iraqi government, and as of Today, they have yet to work out what powers the US will hav in Iraq, under what arrengement US troops will function, specially since it is highly unlikely Iraq's own army or police forces will be ready in time.....

                        Unless you think the country can be pacified in the next 3 months finally......
                        As we see with all the violence, the task is certainly not easy. But a peacedul democratic iraq is in the US and the region's best interests. An Iraq controlled by some anti-American group like Shiite radicals, terrorists or baathist militants is not in our interests nor the regions' interest.

                        The bottomline is that if we succeed, we turn Iraq into an ally, if we fail we turn Iraq into an enemy and we send the message to all anti-american forces that they can take over any country because we can be pushed around.

                        So, we must succeed. We must find a way to pacify Iraq and allow Iraq to become a stable democracy under Iraqi sovereignty.
                        'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                        G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Defiant
                          The June deadline was a joke, was never going to happen. This is still a war and there are armed militia that need to be destroyed. Trying to play nicey nice with these animals doesn't work, you have to lower yourself to their playing level and destroy them at their game.
                          The leaders in Falluja are saying that any foreigner in Falluja is fair game, so be it, then they are too. This Operation "Vigilant Resolve" is going to be a joke unless we take the hammer to this town. The residents will be nice while we are there and as soon as we leave four more bodies will show up. The residents need to understand their fellow buddies who are doing this crap need to stop, the responsibility lays with all of the Falluja people.
                          Agreed. To quote the civ2 military advisor, "Let's go bonk some heads, sir!"
                          'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                          G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            has it ever occurred to you that the 'average iraqi' might not want or isn't ready for a democracy ? not by a longshot ?

                            so how long exactely are you going to stay then ? not that i want you to leave but it's just a question that i have
                            "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                            • #15
                              I'd prefer that we admit to ourselves that a 1 state solution will not work and just go with the 3 state solution.

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