The US must stay the course in Iraq

[Ambro2000]

I hoped that i never would have to say it but: ” I told you so!” This was unfortunately a expected outcome of the insane invasion of Iraq. The even more sad thing is that should the American forces and their allies leave now it would lead to an even more chaotic situation where different groups would fight each other for power. Biggest victims = innocent civilians. A scary thing is that when I was looking at some news channels from USA where they where interviewing them about what they thought about the war were that more and more Americans are against the war. The reason was that they didn’t think that the Iraqis appreciated what the Americans where doing for them. “Here we come the largest Christian force the earth ever have seen on a new crusade (not permitted by the pope however since he was against it as I recall) to free the (in large) Islamic state if Iraq and how do they thank us”? – was one of the remarks..

The best thing do is to keep the US soldiers and their allies but let it be led by UN as it should have been from the start. IF it would come to the point where a war was necessary. (which it never was!

[GePap]

So, we must succeed. We must find a way to pacify Iraq and allow Iraq to become a stable democracy under Iraqi sovereignty.

We have failed to pacify Iraq in 12 months-now, as we plan to undergo a massive troop rotation, we are going to, with troops now green to the area, do in 3 months what we haven't done in 12, all while switching soverignty to Iraqis without Yet, about 4 months after the admin. announced the plan, no real steps taken to clarify the position of US troops and commanders in Iraq post June 31?

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by MrFun


One of the reasons why we lost the Vietnam War was because some of the higher military leaders and too many officials in the Johnson administration were stuck in the "conventional warfare" thought mode. They wanted to use air bombings and increase American ground troops in Vietnam to the point of overkill, while neglecting the nation-building aspect that would have increased South Vietnamese support for their own government.

Of course, South Vietnam's government was corrupt and repressive in its own right, so that was another reason for our loss. Why would the South Vietnamese, in their eyes, have any good reason to fight for their lives for a government that was dysfunctional?


I doubt we will make the same mistakes in Iraq.

Ahmed Chalabi is banned from Jordan because of corruption and fraud charges. The whole INC told us hands down Saddam had stockpiles.... stockpiles of WMD's.

You think the INC is full of good people? Do you trust people who want power?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Defiant
The June deadline was a joke, was never going to happen. This is still a war and there are armed militia that need to be destroyed. Trying to play nicey nice with these animals doesn't work, you have to lower yourself to their playing level and destroy them at their game.
The leaders in Falluja are saying that any foreigner in Falluja is fair game, so be it, then they are too. This Operation "Vigilant Resolve" is going to be a joke unless we take the hammer to this town. The residents will be nice while we are there and as soon as we leave four more bodies will show up. The residents need to understand their fellow buddies who are doing this crap need to stop, the responsibility lays with all of the Falluja people.

The administration would have to admit it was wrong in order for them to move back the June 30 deadline...and since powerful parties in Iraq want us out of rule at that time (such as Sistani), sorry, but June 30 will go on as "planned", cause the last thing in the universe likely to happen is this administration back out of a plan they have publicized.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by dannubis
has it ever occurred to you that the 'average iraqi' might not want or isn't ready for a democracy ? not by a longshot ?

Actually, thats not a bad question. Morevoer has it ever occurred to folk that most people don't want democracy as it poses too much individual responsibility.

[GePap]

Oh, and sorry for continuing to say June 31....

I mean June 30.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by dannubis
has it ever occurred to you that the 'average iraqi' might not want or isn't ready for a democracy ? not by a longshot ?

so how long exactely are you going to stay then ? not that i want you to leave but it's just a question that i have

BTW, our forces are still in Japan and Germany, now I don't think they need to be there anymore, but you asked how long. They need to be there until the ME changes their philosophy towards the West. That is a long time in coming but it has to be or the alternative is something nobody wants.

[Jac de Molay]

We broke it, We buy it. We'll be propping up that "new democratic" Iraq for years to come.

[Ambro2000]

USA will not leave until they have finished what they came for! To insure US financial interests, oil, huge orders to other US companies etc etc…

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GePap


The administration would have to admit it was wrong in order for them to move back the June 30 deadline...and since powerful parties in Iraq want us out of rule at that time (such as Sistani), sorry, but June 30 will go on as "planned", cause the last thing in the universe likely to happen is this administration back out of a plan they have publicized.

GePap,
Screw them, we are the power there, we leave now, there is a 3-way civil war, no power there can handle that, we have our hands full, they don't like it, lets end it, let them raise up arms and when they do we will hammer it. Until we can get a legitimate police force and military we need to play with a rough hand, that is all they understand. Once Iraq'a police force and military is in shape all we have to do is monitor them and stay in t he background.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Defiant


BTW, our forces are still in Japan and Germany, now I don't think they need to be there anymore, but you asked how long. They need to be there until the ME changes their philosophy towards the West. That is a long time in coming but it has to be or the alternative is something nobody wants.

Since 1948 US forces had no part of internal security in germany, which had its own police, and then its own large army.-sicne 1952 ditto for Japan.

Notice how it took 3 years to had power back to the Germans, 7 for the Japanese.

I guess Iraq must be so much easier to do it in 18 months...

or maybe the admin. did not want to be in power in Iraq come election time? Nah, the Bush amdin. would never put the future of iraq in danger for purely political considerations!

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Ambro2000
USA will not leave until they have finished what they came for! To insure US financial interests, oil, huge orders to other US companies etc etc…

I don't know where the hell you live but our gas prices are skyrocketing, I wish this was about oil, then maybe my gas prices would lower.

[Whaleboy]

A democracy in Iraq won't last long. It's not a magic bullet, it is a political system with major flaws and failings, just like the one it replaced. Different cultures, religions etc are compatible with democracy to varying degrees. I suspect Iraq and the ME in general is not.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GePap


Since 1948 US forces had no part of internal security in germany, which had its own police, and then its own large army.-sicne 1952 ditto for Japan.

Notice how it took 3 years to had power back to the Germans, 7 for the Japanese.

I guess Iraq must be so much easier to do it in 18 months...

or maybe the admin. did not want to be in power in Iraq come election time? Nah, the Bush amdin. would never put the future of iraq in danger for purely political considerations!

We are one year into it, we literally crushed the militaries and people of Germany and Japan and unless we want to play that same game, which we can, then this will take a little longer, but hopefully fewer lives.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Defiant


I don't know where the hell you live but our gas prices are skyrocketing, I wish this was about oil, then maybe my gas prices would lower.

Not until we reinvest in additional refineries.