Wtf?!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Edan
If Israel didn't exist, the arab countries would be fighting amoung themselves (even more than they do now), and we would still be hated due to a combination of the alliances/balance of powers that formed in the middle east out of the cold war and our reliance on oil from the region, the lack of democratic reforms and Wahhabism. Don't kid yourself.

So this is just some sort of speculation, then.

[DinoDoc]

As opposed to saying we wouldn't be hated without Israel?

[Edan]

Originally posted by Sava
violence, in Israel's (and America's) case is creating more terrorism than it's stopping...

I dunno about that. Israel's casualties from terrorism have dropped in half in 2003 compared to 2002. That seems to be going in the right direction.

(Though I don't think violence on it's own is the right solution - just as I don't think diplomacy on it's own is the right solution either.)

[Sava]

skywalker... here's a reading list:

The New Jackals Simon Reeve (Northeastern Univ Press) 1999 paperback
The Myth of Homeland Security Marcus Ranum (Wiley) 2003
The Sacred Age of Terrorism Benjamin & Simon (Random H) 2002 paperback
The Crisis of Islam B. Lewis (Random H) 2003
Inside al Qaeda R. Gunaratna (Berkley) 2002 paperback
GERMS J. Miller et al (Simon & Shuster) 2001
America's Role in Nation Building J. Dobbins et al (RAND) 2003 paperback
Emergency Responders: Drastically Underfunded, Dangerously Unprepared
W. Rudman et al CFR 2003
The Generals War Gordon & Trainer Little Brown 1995
Terrorist Financing Wechsler & Wolosky CFR 2003
Dirty Dealing: Money Laundering, International Crime, and Terrorism P. Lilley Kogan Page Press 2003
Masterminds of Terror Fouda & Fielding Arcade 2003
American Jihad S. Emerson Simon and Shuster 2002
America Unbound Daalder & Lindsay Brookings 2003
The Mission D. Priest Norton 2003

I've read every one of these. I'm basing my opinions on the information I've read. Perhaps this will enlighten you.

I recommend these to the rest of 'Poly.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
uhmmm no... the world would stop Israel cold!

How? By debating and then condemning Israel in the UN?

"The world" can't summon up a collective ball to do more than whine.

[Kirnwaffen]

1. Presence of American troops in the region.
2. Unwavering support of Israel.

I don't mean to offend, but I think that's an extraordinarily shallow evaluation of the situation. If the mere presence of our troops and/or the mere existance of Israel is enough to incite the Arab world to hatred against us, I don't think it would be prudent to assume that the lack of either of these elements would necessarily mean a better relationship.

[Zylka]

Sava and Urban. logical pairing, at least

Ever been to Tibet, UR?

[Zylka]

as for the topic; that's just beyond evil. It's simply so unbelievably f*ing sad. I had to fight back tears seeing those pictures - what an absolute garbage act by humanity

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Kucinich


Yup! Rather than defend myself from attack, I'll just sit there. Then they'll stop attacking me, of course. I mean, it's ALL MY FAULT, isn't it?

Sorry this conflict has gone way too long and is way to fvcked up now that I would call it anybody's fault.

I just see that the only fault left is that of Israeli and Palestinian leaders because they are obviously completely unable to solve the conflict. In fact it has only gotten worse. They need to be replaced and quickly before they cause more damage with their braindead policies of eye for an eye.

I just saw on the news that china attempted to occupy some japanese islands and they were arrested and there was japanese-flag-burning and protest in china. tststs
It seems people have forgotten the cruelties of war, or they dont listen to the signals.
Turn back before its too late and say good bye to hatred and terror. It will only lead you to the dark side anyway ;-)

[Uncle Sparky]

Blowing up children accidentally by Israeli soldiers while trying to kill potential terrorists or advocates of anti-Israeli policies is unfortunate but ok.

I think all the Imams preaching Death to Israel and all the Rabbis preaching Death to Palistine should be shot by their own followers.

Or maybe to even things out the EU or China or someone should give the Palestinian Government the type of weapons Israel uses to take out Palestinian threats. It would be the humanitarian thing to do.

Imagine, Arafat could send a couple of missiles to target anti Palestinian Jewish clerics as they leave for morning prayers, killing only them (if the missiles hit the right targets). No more child-bombs ! No more random killings !

Why shouldn't both sides be given the means to target who they really want to kill ?

[Eli]

Originally posted by Uncle Sparky
Why shouldn't both sides be given the means to target who they really want to kill ?

Eh? We struggled for decades to get our quality edge. Why should the Pals get stuff the easy way?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Shooting missiles into crowds. Tearing down refugee camps. Continuously occupying other people's territory. That ought to show them who's the boss.

civilian crowds = human shields/hostages by terrorists themselves

refugee camps = where cowardly terrorists hide

other people's territory = again, where terrorists have their bases

[Uncle Sparky]

Originally posted by MrFun


civilian crowds = human shields/hostages by terrorists themselves

refugee camps = where cowardly terrorists hide

other people's territory = again, where terrorists have their bases

however it should read

other people's territory = part of the Nation of Israel

I think the zionists officially claim an area running from Korea to the Atlantic Oceon