Wtf?!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kucinich
How DARE Israel defend itself from deliberate attacks on its innocent civilians because they may accidentally cause some other innocent civilians to die!

Shooting missiles into crowds. Tearing down refugee camps. Continuously occupying other people's territory. That ought to show them who's the boss.

[Kuciwalker]

Shooting missiles into crowds.

To hit legitimate targets which deliberately hide behind said crowds...

... compared with a bomb detonated in a resteraunt for the sole purpose of killing civilians.

Tearing down refugee camps.

Turning refugees into living weapons.

Continuously occupying other people's territory.

Deliberately killing civilians in the occupier's territory.

[Sava]

UR:

violence, in Israel's (and America's) case is creating more terrorism than it's stopping...

would non-violence work? well the Islamic world didn't hate America when it DIDN'T have military bases there... American hatred started in 1948 with the creation of Israel... but really became overwhelming after the Gulf War with the presence of military in the Gulf region.

[Kuciwalker]

Do you really think things would have been better for America if Israel didn't exist?

Israel is an excuse.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Kucinich
Do you really think things would have been better for America if Israel didn't exist?

Israel is an excuse.

If you believe this, then you don't know jack**** about history...

[Kuciwalker]

[Sava]

it's really quite sad... the state of education in America...

Not only do most American kids have a terrible understanding of history... they are terribly ignorant of other cultures.

Let me spell it out for you skywalker... hopefully you may learn something:

Islamic hatred of America has 2 main causes... and these are in order of significance.

1. Presence of American troops in the region.
2. Unwavering support of Israel.

Islamic terrorists don't just hate America just because they have nothing better to do. Are you so stupid to believe that they just hate us for no reason? I sure hope not. If we didn't have troops in the region, and if we tried to mediate the mideast conflict... terrorists wouldn't have us in their sites.

You should read the Art of War, boy. Learn to understand your enemy. They hate us for very distinct reasons. And it isn't a question of non-coexistence. Islam and the West can exist peacefully.

But ignorant, extremist hawks on both sides make peace very improbable.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava
it's really quite sad... the state of education in America...

I'd love to give you a tour of my school

Not only do most American kids have a terrible understanding of history... they are terribly ignorant of other cultures.

And you, magically, have this huge knowledge of them?

Let me spell it out for you skywalker... hopefully you may learn something:

Islamic hatred of America has 2 main causes... and these are in order of significance.

1. Presence of American troops in the region.
2. Unwavering support of Israel.

Islamic terrorists don't just hate America just because they have nothing better to do. Are you so stupid to believe that they just hate us for no reason? I sure hope not. If we didn't have troops in the region, and if we tried to mediate the mideast conflict... terrorists wouldn't have us in their sites.

They hate us because it is politically expedient in the extreme to hate us (individually they may hate us for whatever reason they damn well please - the important fact is that their political system selects for people who hate us). The reason is because they can portray the West as decadent, infidel, corrupt, etc. Israel is just a bonus.

You should read the Art of War, boy. Learn to understand your enemy. They hate us for very distinct reasons. And it isn't a question of non-coexistence. Islam and the West can exist peacefully.

The West and Islam as practiced by terrorists cannot.

But ignorant, extremist hawks on both sides make peace very improbable.

The other side is, by definition, ignorant, extremist hawks.

That's why negotiating doesn't work.

[Sava]

I'm sorry, I cannot discuss this subject with you any more. Your level of understanding of Islam and the late 20th Century is obviously (by reading your posts) very small.

This is not meant as an insult skywalker. It's like trying to discuss baseball strategy with a Buddhist monk. You just lack the understanding.

Maybe we can talk about this after you go through a few years of college (if you don't party too hard ).

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kucinich

Seeing that you keep putting the cart in front of the horse, Sava is right.

[Kuciwalker]

*sigh*

[Sava]

exactly

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kucinich
They hate us because it is politically expedient in the extreme to hate us (individually they may hate us for whatever reason they damn well please - the important fact is that their political system selects for people who hate us). The reason is because they can portray the West as decadent, infidel, corrupt, etc. Israel is just a bonus.

So, you have solid evidence that Muslims had been hating the US before the creation of Israel and subsequent support of the country regardless of its actions?

[Edan]

Originally posted by Sava
If you believe this, then you don't know jack**** about history...

If Israel didn't exist, the arab countries would be fighting amoung themselves (even more than they do now), and we would still be hated due to a combination of the alliances/balance of powers that formed in the middle east out of the cold war and our reliance on oil from the region, the lack of democratic reforms and Wahhabism/fundamentalist islam. Don't kid yourself.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kucinich
*sigh*

What do you think is the root cause of Palestinians attacks, or, in their words, Intifada?