Why when the West attacks terrorists...

[Whaleboy]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
When considering Israel's actions, remember one thing.

If Hamas and Islamic Jihad gave up their arms tomorrow, there would be peace.

If Israel gave up their arms tomorrow, there would be genocide.

Pretty words, but in reality Israel would become more of what it is... another Apartheid.

And I for one am not advocating Israel drops its arms. It merely stops firing them. See the working distinction?

[*End Is Forever*]

Hamas and Islamic Jihad will settle for nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel, and they are prepared to sacrifice themselves to achieve that aim. You can't get more extreme than that. How can anything make that any worse?

[Whaleboy]

That is their stated aim but less is sufficient to get them to stop. It is a sociological problem with sociological causes. Changing that is a simple question of economics. After that, Hamas et al would simply bleed (figuratively) to death.

[*End Is Forever*]

I saw this posted on another site... don't agree with it all (the tone is especially harsh), but there are some good points to think about...

As most of you probably already heard, Israel turned wheelchair bound Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin into a pile of twisted wreckage & red pulp with a missile last night and I could not approve more strongly of what they did...well scratch that, had they put a few missiles into Arafat's compound so that Yassin would have someone to chat with in hell, that would have been an improvement.

Yassin was the founder & leader of a group that has murdered hundreds of Israelis & has killed Americans as well. Hamas has openly proclaimed that their goal is not living in peace with Israel, but genocide. So who cares if Hamas is now saying they are going to open up the "gates of hell" over this attack? That's what they try to do every day of the week, it's their raison d'etre. When you're dealing with people who have that sort of mentality, the question isn't "should you kill them at every opportunity," it's "why shouldn't you kill them at every opportunity"?

But of course, the Europeans have an answer to that questions...

"The European Union rounded angrily on Israel on Monday for killing Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, warning that his assassination was "very bad news" for the Middle East peace process.

EU foreign ministers appealed for restraint on all sides after Yassin's killing in an Israeli helicopter strike, which they called an illegal act that would only fuel bloodshed and further hinder Middle East peace efforts.

"The assassination... has inflamed the situation," they said in a statement. "Violence is no substitute for the political negotiations, which are necessary for a just and lasting settlement."

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said: "The manner in which you fight terrorism is through the law. This was an illegal act under international law.

"This is very, very bad news for the peace process," he added."

Look, there is no "peace process". There cannot be "political negotiations" or a "peace process" which features one side that considers genocide to be a condition of peace. You don't make peace with people like Yassin, Abu Abbas, or Yassir Arafat. You kill them or they kill you and "international law" which is an irrelevant joke under the best of circumstances doesn't have anything to do with it. You can talk about "violations of international law" all day long, but since no one is going to enforce it, it's just as meaningless as those tags on your mattress that say "do not remove under penalty of law".

So since there is no "peace process" to speak of, "international law" means nothing, & terrorist groups like Hamas & Islamic Jihad intend to kill as many Israelis as possible no matter what happens, Israel should not hesitate to kill every Palestinian terrorist they can, Arafat included. Nobody with half a brain in the US is crying any tears over Al-Qaeda terrorists who get gunned down or blown away with hellfire missiles, and there's not a dime's worth of difference between any member of Hamas or Al-Qaeda. The more of them that get locked up or preferably killed, the safer civilization is....

[Whaleboy]

A strawman EiF.

Their is a major discrepancy between their stated objectives and ability to carry them out, or even their genuine objectives (from a functionalist sociological perspective).

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
A strawman EiF.

Their is a major discrepancy between their stated objectives and ability to carry them out, or even their genuine objectives (from a functionalist sociological perspective).

What does functionalism have to do with your argument?

[*End Is Forever*]

"Terrorist groups like Hamas & Islamic Jihad intend to kill as many Israelis as possible no matter what happens" is not a strawman. It is the truth.

[GePap]

And will killing Yassin help end Palestinian militancy any faster? No.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
When considering Israel's actions, remember one thing.

If Hamas and Islamic Jihad gave up their arms tomorrow, there would be peace.

If Israel gave up their arms tomorrow, there would be genocide.

They said that about Northern Ireland. And South Africa. And Rhodesia. And Kenya. And India.

[Saint Marcus]

killing a half blind, half deaf old man, who's stuck in a wheelchair, by firing rockets from Apache helicopters. Especcially after Israel let him out of prison only a few years ago.

How very courageous!

[Whaleboy]

What does functionalism have to do with your argument?

Terrorism serves a function in those societies, or to be more precise, it is an outlet for some of the extreme hatred which transcends a greater proportion of that society. There is a reason for that hatred existing in the first place and it is that which I am proposing we address.

"Terrorist groups like Hamas & Islamic Jihad intend to kill as many Israelis as possible no matter what happens" is not a strawman. It is the truth.

They would if they could, undoubtably. But they cannot. That is the key difference. Furthermore, the annihilation of Israeli's is not the key (aforementioned) reason for those groups existing. That is merely a stated aim or perhaps recruitment slogan. We can't take them seriously as a military force! Terrorists represent little tactical threat to Western civilisation. Instead they are particularly awful and well organised murderers.

[CharlesBHoff]

AQ claim it brought bielf case size nuclear bomb from than former Soviet Union nuclear bomb maker. These bomb are make to be undectable by any mean as they where meant for spy mission. USA and USSR regulate nuclear warhead where make to be detectable from 10 miles away on the ground and 100 away from the air incase someone stole one of their nuclear warhead or one went missing they could easies find then. My SECOND DEPARETMENT , the Russia new KGB, and Red China Second Department take this very serious. They compare notes and found that AQ brought 10 of the nuclear bomb for 300 million dollars, the former scienist is missing for the last few year and is believe working for AQ with other missing bomb maker and training AQ in makeing nuclear weapon. These are small labs well hidden use than other way to change U-238 into Pu-239, Iran and Pakistan and South Africa have huge Uranium deposit. It is belief that they can make between 5 and 10 more bomb ayear. That they now have between 20 and 30 just bomb. These bomb have than yeild between 100 to 500 kiloton of TnT.
It Hamma get one just bomb from AQ and blow up Tel Avis with than 500 kiloton bomb.

[Ramo]

I want a second department.

[Dis]

I agree with Park Avenues original post (god help me)

What is scary is the west including the U.S. still continues appeasement. Even the Bush administration said it was deeply troubled by these latest attacks by Israel.

Deeply troubled? come on!! Yes, I realize that it is just a PR statement to distance ourselves from Israel. But why is this necessary.

I want president with balls. One who will come in front of the tv cameras and cheer Israel on. One who will say "hey, it's one less terrorist we have to do with, we stand by Israel 100%". Or he'd say "the only good terrorist is a dead terrorist"

[Caligastia]

Yes. Unfortunately that's not what Bush has done.