Why when the West attacks terrorists...

[Solly]

...all we hear (well, in UK) is "well, the terrorists won't be happy with this and surely we will now see a continuing of the cycle of violence".

When did we start caring what terrorists want?

You never hear criticism (from BBC etc) of terrorists attacks from groups like the Palestinians saying "well, this is sure to continue the cycle of violence and demand a response from the Israeli army"?

It seems quite a few in the West haven't learnt anything from tales of appeasement - we have to fight back, and not give in to what they want. Evidence on Poly of this too, and in Spain. Damn fools.

[Bosh]

You've put a Fez quote in your sig and apparently agree with it.

How can this be

[Solly]

Giancarlo has sensible views on foreign policy issues.

It's as if we consider ourselves secondary actors to the terrorists. As if their actions are a given. Well, they are not. We can influence the future more than some murderous wheelchair-bound fool can.

[dannubis]

just look at his avatar ...
it's a mirror of his iq

[Ming]

Let's stick to the topic... and NOT talk about the posters...

[Kropotkin]

Well, for once I kind of agree with Park Avenue's point. Surley we (and I mean 'we' as people in the world that don't like to blow other people up) shouldn't care about what the terrorists thinks. They are quite a small group compared to us and they will probably not change their opinions just because we're nice to them (note: I'm not talking anyone else but the terrorists here). On the other hand there's no need to provoce them without a reasonable cause. Especially so if the provocation might lead to more moderate groups to turn radical. In other words; we need to fight the terrorists without at the same time helping them to recruit more. There's a difference between being nice to them and to not provocing maniacs.

Anyhow, there's a point to PA:s argument. Right after the Madrid bombings there where a couple of thousands demostrating outside the PP:s HQ, blaiming them for the deaths. Yes, PP:s policies might have lead to the terrorists chosing Madrid as a target, but it's the terrorists that are to blame for the deaths, not the government. Like the terrorists have no will of their own and just react to stimuli from government policies like some othe fungus.

[*End Is Forever*]

March 15/16, 1939: Nazis take Czechoslovakia. (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge Czechoslovakia to be restrained in their response.)

May 22, 1939: Nazis sign 'Pact of Steel' with Italy. (Other nations declare that Italy and Germany signing pact to help each other take over the world "not helpful to the peace process.")

Aug 23, 1939: Nazis and Soviets sign Pact. (The world heralds signing of treaty as a sign of Hitler's good intentions. He wouldn't be signing a peace treaty if he wanted war would he?)

Sept 1, 1939: Nazis invade Poland. (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge rest of the world to be restrained in their response.)

Sept 3, 1939: Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany. (World condemns these nations for declaring war. This may cause unrest in Europe!)

Oct, 1939: Nazis begin euthanasia on sick and disabled in Germany. (World mildly condemns this but declares that we must understand the actions of Germany in the context of the horribly unfair treaty of Versailles.)

April 9, 1940: Nazis invade Denmark and Norway. (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge rest of the world to be restrained in their response.)

May 10, 1940: Nazis invade France, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge rest of the world to be restrained in their response.)

June 14, 1940: Germans enter Paris. (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge rest of the world to be restrained in their response.)

July 10, 1940: Battle of Britain begins. (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge Britain to be restrained lest they further the "cycle of violence.")

Aug 23/24: First German air raids on Central London. (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge Britain to be restrained lest they further the "cycle of violence.")

Aug 25/26: First British air raid on Berlin. (World outraged at British attacks! Civilians may have been killed by irresponsible British attacks! World votes 453-4 to condemn Britain!)

Sept 13, 1940: Italians invade Egypt (Other nations give mild condemnation of Italian attack but urge rest of the world to be restrained in their response.)

Nov 20, 1940: Hungary joins the Axis Powers. (World excited! Hopes Hungary may now have the influence to help move the peace process forward. World publicly says they applaud the peace effort they are sure Hungary will soon begin!)

Nov 23, 1940: Romania joins the Axis Powers. (World excited! Hopes Romania may now have the influence to help move the peace process forward. World publicly says they applaud the peace effort they are sure Romania will soon begin!)

Dec 9/10: British begin a western desert offensive in North Africa against the Italians. (World outraged at British attacks! How will we ever have peace if Britain keeps attacking the other side?)

March 11, 1941: President Roosevelt signs the Lend-Lease Act. (World criticizes Americans for selling weaponry to combatants! Announces they should only give food, blankets, and tents if they're going to get involved at all.)

May 10/11, 1941: Heavy German bombing of London; British bomb Hamburg. (World is outraged by British attack on Hamburg! Civilians may of been injured! World condemns Britain in strongest terms and demands they stop bombing anywhere civilians might be!)

June 14, 1941: United States freezes German and Italian assets in America. (Americans accused of "hating all Germans and Italians". 32 lawsuits filed.)

June 22, 1941: Germany attacks Soviet Union as Operation Barbarossa begins. (World upset that treaty broken. They urge president Roosevelt to personally sit down with Stalin and Hitler to negotiate new treaty.)

Sept 29, 1941: Nazis murder 33,771 Jews at Kiev (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi murders but urge rest of the world to be restrained in their response.)

Dec 7, 1941: Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor (Other nations give mild condemnation of Japanese attack but urge United States to be restrained in their response.)

Dec 8, 1941: United States and Britain declare war on Japan. (Other nations outraged! Accuse United States of furthering "cycle of violence". World says that Roosevelt calling Dec 7, 1941 "a date which will live in infamy" is "simplistic" and "not helpful.")

Jan 20, 1942: SS Leader Heydrich holds the Wannsee Conference to coordinate the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question." (World declares plan to kill all Jews is "not helpful". Urges Hitler to declare that exterminating all Jews is wrong in German.)

Aug 17, 1942: First all-American air attack in Europe. (World outraged at American aggression! Suggests putting Roosevelt up for war crimes trial!)

Oct 18, 1942: Hitler orders the execution of all captured British commandos. (World takes occasion to remind "Allies" that German prisoners should get extra bratwurst and beer for "Oktoberfest".)

Jan 14-24, 1943: Casablanca conference between Churchill and Roosevelt. During the conference, Roosevelt announces the war can end only with an unconditional German surrender (World outraged! Says that Churchill and Roosevelt must be willing to negotiate with Hitler now while they're being attacked!)

May 13, 1943: German and Italian troops surrender in North Africa. (World demands that relief groups monitor the conditions for German and Italian troops to make sure they're not being "tortured.")

July 25/26, 1943: Mussolini arrested and the Italian Fascist government falls; Marshal Pietro Badoglio takes over and negotiates with Allies (World fears change in Italian leadership will cause "more instability in Europe.")

July 27/28, 1943: Allied air raid causes a firestorm in Hamburg. (World condemns "Allies" raid on Hamburg. Votes 454-2 to order all allied forces to withdraw to their own countries and begin negotiating for peace.)

Jan 6, 1944: Soviet troops advance into Poland. (World condemns Soviet aggression! Demands Soviets stop their "brutal oppression.")

March 18, 1944: British drop 3000 tons of bombs during an air raid on Hamburg, Germany. (World outraged! Citizens of Hamburg "under siege"! World suggests putting troops inbetween combatants in effort to insure a cease fire.)

June 6, 1944: D-Day landings. (World goes nuts! This outrageous aggression by the Allies must not stand!)

June 13, 1944: First German V-1 rocket attack on Britain. (Other nations give mild condemnation of Nazi attack but urge rest of the world to be restrained in their response.)

Sept 1-4, 1944: Verdun, Dieppe, Artois, Rouen, Abbeville, Antwerp and Brussels liberated by Allies. (World urges Allies to negotiate with Axis for peace! World has moment of silence for the German people who may of been harmed in attacks!)

Dec 17, 1944: Waffen SS murder 81 U.S. POWs at Malmedy. (World chides Allies that they had better not treat their prisoners like that!)

Dec 26, 1944: Patton relieves Bastogne. (World outraged! Patton is a "hawk". The fact that the Americans put a man like that in charge of their military shows "they're not serious about peace.")

Feb 13/14, 1945: Dresden is destroyed by a firestorm after Allied bombing raids. (World calls for all allied leaders to be put up for war crimes trial. World expresses "shock and dismay" at Allies "complete disregard" for civilians!)

March 6, 1945: Last German offensive of the war begins to defend oil fields in Hungary. (World comments "Who could blame them after all those allied attacks? Wouldn't you do the same thing in their place?"

April 1, 1945: U.S. troops encircle Germans in the Ruhr(World demands US allow German troops a way out rather than attack.)

April 16, 1945: Soviet troops begin their final attack on Berlin; Americans enter Nuremberg. (World demands that Hitler not be overthrown! He is the elected leader of the German people!)

April 30, 1945: Adolf Hitler commits suicide. (World now very upset! Fears someone "worse than Hitler" may now take his place!)

May 7, 1945: Unconditional surrender of all German forces to Allies. (World upset and concerned about fate of German people. Sends relief groups in to make sure Germans not mistreated!)

June 5, 1945: Allies divide up Germany and Berlin and take over the government. (World outraged! Demands that the "occupation of Germany" end immediately)

Aug 6, 1945: First atomic bomb dropped, on Hiroshima, Japan. (World demands Truman be tried for war crimes. Protestors and peaceniks from across the world flock to Japan to act as human shields)

Aug 9, 1945: Second atomic bomb dropped, on Nagasaki, Japan. (World tells US that dropping atomic bombs will only "create more martyrs" and will encourage more Japanese than ever to turn against the Allies!)

Aug 14, 1945: Japanese agree to unconditional surrender. (World sincerely hopes the citizens on the Axis nations can forgive the Allies for their uncalled for aggression, imperialism, and oppression in this war.)

[oedo]

Re: Why when the West attacks terrorists...

When did we start caring what terrorists want?

Right after the socialists won the election in Spain.

[chequita guevara]

I don't recall hearing anyone saying "the terrorists won't like this." I recall people wondering what the people of the ME care about, since they form the base from which the terrorists cull new members.

Why is this important? Every enemy we don't create is one less person trying to kill us and needing to be killed by us. Better to stop your enemies from coming in to existence.

[BeBMan]

Actually I think terr acts are condemned as well.

[Saint Marcus]

poor troll


but I give you a 8/10 for putting this in your posts: Giancarlo has sensible views on foreign policy issues.

absolutely hilarious!

[Elok]

I, too, don't recall anyone caring what the terrorists themselves would think, only worrying about alienating the Muslim world in general. Which is only sensible; if they hate or fear us, they aren't going to stop hating or fearing after we chuck bombs at them. Thinking you can change an entire society's point of view by brute force is basically terrorism by definition.

We also have to consider that the people of the ME are, by their nature, survivors. They are quite used to fighting ridiculous odds to maintain their existence, because they have come to see resistance of the West as absolutely necessary to ensure their survival. As they see it, they win just by continuing to draw breath. Their backs are against the wall, and it's best not to antagonize them without need.

[Cruddy]

Re: Why when the West attacks terrorists...

Originally posted by Park Avenue
... When did we start caring what terrorists want?

You might want to study history more. Starting with the birth of the USA - and do remember, one man's freedom fighter is another man's rebel/terrorist/insurgent.

[Arrian]

PA/Bods - that avatar is a ****ing disgrace. Not that I should expect any better from you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

-Arrian

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Arrian
PA/Bods - . . .

Welcome to my ignore list.

-Arrian

I've been ignoring him for years. It's good for the blood pressure.